Slitherine

I've played around with HYW english longbowmen and stakes

Some weird things:
When I have stakes placed, sometimes my longbowmen pursue, when breaking enemy foot-troops... and take the stakes with them!!!!
Means, as soon as I loose contact, the stakes are still there, as if they have pursued as well.

Questions:
Should troops behind Stakes pursue anyhow?
If so, the stakes should be gone, correct?

Another thing: When fighting without having stakes placed, you sometimes do not want to fight, so you can place stakes instead of fighting (not tested if you can pack them as well)
So you can avoid nasty melees, which sounds terribly weird to me

Can somebody commnent on this please?

Martin0112 wrote:I've played around with HYW english longbowmen and stakes

Some weird things:
When I have stakes placed, sometimes my longbowmen pursue, when breaking enemy foot-troops... and take the stakes with them!!!!
Means, as soon as I loose contact, the stakes are still there, as if they have pursued as well.

Questions:
Should troops behind Stakes pursue anyhow?
If so, the stakes should be gone, correct?

Another thing: When fighting without having stakes placed, you sometimes do not want to fight, so you can place stakes instead of fighting (not tested if you can pack them as well)
So you can avoid nasty melees, which sounds terribly weird to me

Can somebody commnent on this please?

No they should not persue.

If your Longbowmen are in Melee then it's too late, they would not be able to place stakes. (Its a bit difficult to dig a hole and secure a stake while somebody is trying to spill your guts whith their pointy thing ) So probably by that time they are toast!!

Well, this is what I thought, but... try it
It works!!!!

Gunjin wrote:

Martin0112 wrote:I've played around with HYW english longbowmen and stakes

Some weird things:
When I have stakes placed, sometimes my longbowmen pursue, when breaking enemy foot-troops... and take the stakes with them!!!!
Means, as soon as I loose contact, the stakes are still there, as if they have pursued as well.

Questions:
Should troops behind Stakes pursue anyhow?
If so, the stakes should be gone, correct?

Another thing: When fighting without having stakes placed, you sometimes do not want to fight, so you can place stakes instead of fighting (not tested if you can pack them as well)
So you can avoid nasty melees, which sounds terribly weird to me

Can somebody commnent on this please?

No they should not persue.

If your Longbowmen are in Melee then it's too late, they would not be able to place stakes. (Its a bit difficult to dig a hole and secure a stake while somebody is trying to spill your guts whith their pointy thing ) So probably by that time they are toast!!

In the TT rules, a BG may not emplace or pickup stakes if within bow range ( 6 MU for TT, equivalent to 5 hexes for PC). This should be true for the PC as well. A BG that pursues should lose its stakes.

Chris

Then they should address this so that Longbowmen cant place stakes in the PC version too.

Is there any indication that your units have stakes deployed or not? Tried and couldnt tell...

You should be able to see the stakes when they are deployed. I see them when ive deployed the stakes in my games.

Gunjin wrote:You should be able to see the stakes when they are deployed. I see them when ive deployed the stakes in my games.

Are you refering the the acual graphic of stakes that appears to be part of the unit image, or does soemthing else actually appear on the hexside, like the palisides... I ask becuse i had crossbows in my last dag battle and the unit image graphic appeared to have stakes but I didnt buy any nor did I do anything to deploy.

batesmotel wrote:
In the TT rules, a BG may not emplace or pickup stakes if within bow range ( 6 MU for TT, equivalent to 5 hexes for PC). This should be true for the PC as well. A BG that pursues should lose its stakes.

Chris

Are you sure about that? I don't have my book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that is wrong. I haven't used stakes in quite a while, but my memory is that the traditional tactic (in the game) was to wait until the enemy got within charge range and then pray that you made your CMT to put them down. That might have been the rule for picking up stakes, however.

iversonjm wrote:

batesmotel wrote:
In the TT rules, a BG may not emplace or pickup stakes if within bow range ( 6 MU for TT, equivalent to 5 hexes for PC). This should be true for the PC as well. A BG that pursues should lose its stakes.

Chris

Are you sure about that? I don't have my book in front of me, but I'm pretty sure that is wrong. I haven't used stakes in quite a while, but my memory is that the traditional tactic (in the game) was to wait until the enemy got within charge range and then pray that you made your CMT to put them down. That might have been the rule for picking up stakes, however.

I actually looked the portable defenses rules up a couple days ago. I'm pretty sure that both placing and picking up portable defenses required the BG be beyond 6 MU from enemy and it required a CMT to do it. I don't have my rules here but you can find the rules in the back near the orb rules. I've noticed that most of regular posters in the FoG TT forums generally recommend against using stakes with longbowmen so in general I assume they haven't been found to be that useful in competition. Both stakes and battle wagons seem to be pretty inconsistent compared to the TT rules in SoA. I haven't heard anyone mention if the effects of stakes are limited to enemy mounted troops or not in FoG PC.

Chris

The unit graphic does change when you place stakes, but they don't show up on hexsides like fortifications. They are embedded in the unit graphics, where the figures actually stand. I've been able to place them. But have not tried moving or charging or anything..will watch for this.

TheGrayMouser wrote:

Gunjin wrote:You should be able to see the stakes when they are deployed. I see them when ive deployed the stakes in my games.

Are you refering the the acual graphic of stakes that appears to be part of the unit image, or does soemthing else actually appear on the hexside, like the palisides... I ask becuse i had crossbows in my last dag battle and the unit image graphic appeared to have stakes but I didnt buy any nor did I do anything to deploy.

Yes. I see a stake pointing forward from the ground when deployed..

batesmotel wrote: I actually looked the portable defenses rules up a couple days ago. I'm pretty sure that both placing and picking up portable defenses required the BG be beyond 6 MU from enemy and it required a CMT to do it. I don't have my rules here but you can find the rules in the back near the orb rules. I've noticed that most of regular posters in the FoG TT forums generally recommend against using stakes with longbowmen so in general I assume they haven't been found to be that useful in competition. Both stakes and battle wagons seem to be pretty inconsistent compared to the TT rules in SoA. I haven't heard anyone mention if the effects of stakes are limited to enemy mounted troops or not in FoG PC.

Chris

I haven't used them in forever either, but I did have them used against me at Cold Wars by an experienced player who was dropping them w/in bow range. I didn't check it because that comported with my understanding of the rule. I'll have to look it up. Been wrong before...

iversonjm wrote:

batesmotel wrote: I actually looked the portable defenses rules up a couple days ago. I'm pretty sure that both placing and picking up portable defenses required the BG be beyond 6 MU from enemy and it required a CMT to do it. I don't have my rules here but you can find the rules in the back near the orb rules. I've noticed that most of regular posters in the FoG TT forums generally recommend against using stakes with longbowmen so in general I assume they haven't been found to be that useful in competition. Both stakes and battle wagons seem to be pretty inconsistent compared to the TT rules in SoA. I haven't heard anyone mention if the effects of stakes are limited to enemy mounted troops or not in FoG PC.

Chris

I haven't used them in forever either, but I did have them used against me at Cold Wars by an experienced player who was dropping them w/in bow range. I didn't check it because that comported with my understanding of the rule. I'll have to look it up. Been wrong before...

I was wrong. The 6 MU restriction is only for picking up stakes.

Chris

Stakes in the PC game are different to the TT game.

1) Known bug: Battle groups with stakes should not be able to pick them up or place them if adjacent to the enemy. This is fixed as part of the next update.

2) A battle group may place stakes taking a whole player turn to do so. A battle group may turn before placing but not after. It may not shoot in the same player turn as placing.

3) A battle group may pick up stakes taking a whole player turn to do so. A battle group may turn affter picking up but not before. It may not shoot in the same player turn as picking up.

4) No CMT's are required and the proximity of enemy unis is not a factor.

Keith

Would it be possible to add a Ui text that advises if a unit has placed Stakes or not?

I find from the active players perspective that it is very hard to see the actual graphic.. For example, when playing your turn you army is usully backside facing you, i can see the stakes when the unit is facing due North, but find it impossible to see them when facing NW or NE (ok, if you look real close you can see the tip, right whee the arrow head would be) Now when the enemy is facing you with stakes deployed, they are facing due south toward you, it is also hard to make out the stakes as they are just small circles, and when the unit is pointed SE or SW, well, it looks like their just real happy to see you!
Maybe just a text advising if they are deployed when you hover over the unit w the cursor (where all the unit info is diplayed)


In a completely related yet unrelated note, is it possible to give any unit stakes using the scenario editor??

I was playing again HYW english and while my longbowmen were fighting some knioghts, I had the option to place the stakes, while I was in contact, but after I did it, I was not allowed to fight back.
There must still be a problem.

Please, try it, have a melee without stakes placed and try to place them in your next turn, it will work!

batesmotel wrote:I've noticed that most of regular posters in the FoG TT forums generally recommend against using stakes with longbowmen so in general I assume they haven't been found to be that useful in competition.

It isn't because they aren't useful. It is because they make longbowmen so invincible vs mounted knights etc. that only a stupid opponent will come anywhere near them. Hence against skillful opponents they tend to increase the chance of the game being timed out as a draw.

The purpose of not taking them is to tempt the enemy to attack, when hopefully you can rout them by concentrating archery - provided that nothing goes horribly wrong.

I should note that the champion player, Bruce Brown, did use stakes last time he fielded his French Ordonnance in a tournament, and of course (as usual) he won the tournament.

Martin0112 wrote:I was playing again HYW english and while my longbowmen were fighting some knioghts, I had the option to place the stakes, while I was in contact, but after I did it, I was not allowed to fight back.
There must still be a problem.

Please, try it, have a melee without stakes placed and try to place them in your next turn, it will work!

Clearly this should not happen.