Slitherine

In the TT rules, the points for the sacking of your baggage camp are lost as soon as soon as an enemy BG contacts it if it is unfortified or as soon as the defenders are overcome if it is fortified. Troops will continue looting the camp until they make a CMT to stop but the points are lost as soon as the troops are in position to loot. Given that the 2 attrition points for looting a camp are of limited value anyway in FoG PC, it would make sacking an enemy of a bit more value if the points were lost immediately rather than only when looting ends. (Lost a game today due to that delay .) As it is now, Your baggage camp is probably better seen as an attractive nuisance to suck in enemy troops and tie them up for multiple turns rather than as something you should worry about using. Sort of like a piece of fly paper for enemy BGs!

Chris

I fully agree. I never really bother defending my camp as it doesn't really seem to be worth the effort and compromise of tactical position for 2 points. Similarly, I rarely go out of my way to loot an enemy camp for the same reasons.

It's also because I don't really see any disadvantage or advantage of the impact on morale. Could you clarify what this impact is or meant to be?

The points are lost immediately but your unit cannot move till the looting is completed. This is the behavoour intended and how I have seen it working. There may be a graphcial update issue that you need to move on to the next unit before it updates the number.

iainmcneil wrote:The points are lost immediately but your unit cannot move till the looting is completed. This is the behavoour intended and how I have seen it working. There may be a graphcial update issue that you need to move on to the next unit before it updates the number.

It didn't happen in the game against you this morning when my pursuer contacted your camp and you were already at 35/37.

Also, the on line help describes it working as:

* Baggage camps may not be entered or moved through by battle groups of either side.
* At the start of friendly player turn that a battle group is adjacent to an enemy baggage camp and no enemy battle groups it will be engaged in trying to loot the baggage camp. It will be marked with a rising looting image and a persistent anarchy image image. It may do nothing else that player turn.
* At the start of friendly player turn that a battle group is adjacent to an enemy baggage camp and no enemy battle groups it will take a complex move test to complete looting the camp.
* If the battle group passes the complex move test the baggage camp will be removed from play and will count as lost for victory purposes.
* If the battle group fails the complex move test it will continue to 'loot' the camp and may do nothing else that player turn.
* A baggage camp may be relocated only during the deployment phase. Click the lower left section of the camp and then click the new desired location to move the camp.
* A 'looted' baggage camp counts as lost as two army break points.
* A baggage camp is not a battle group.

Hence my opinion that friendly baggage camps are most useful as fly paper for enemy BGs!

Chris

Morbio wrote:It's also because I don't really see any disadvantage or advantage of the impact on morale. Could you clarify what this impact is or meant to be?

It feels odd to be quoting myself

Can someone please explain what the impact of morale loss is?

Morbio wrote:

Morbio wrote:It's also because I don't really see any disadvantage or advantage of the impact on morale. Could you clarify what this impact is or meant to be?

It feels odd to be quoting myself

Can someone please explain what the impact of morale loss is?

The only penalty for the loss of the baggage camp is the loss of 2 attrition points. This is the same as the loss of a destroyed or broken BG. Attrition points are the game mechanism used to represent the overall morale/cohesion of your army. When the army has lost attrition points equal to its initial size in BGs (excluding scythed chariots) your army is considered defeated. So losing your camp affects morale in terms of the attrition point mechanism used to reflect overall army morale. There is no direct effect on cohesion tests for the loss of the camp so this may be confusing if you think of cohesion tests as "morale" tests. In actuality they are teh game mechanism to represent a more complex combination of formation cohesion and fatigue as well as morale within the BG.

Chris

Are you sure they did not get deducted? The pursuers had already fought that round so maybe this prevented them looting. Can you watch in future and see what happens as it coudl be a bug related to pursuers.

iainmcneil wrote:Are you sure they did not get deducted? The pursuers had already fought that round so maybe this prevented them looting. Can you watch in future and see what happens as it coudl be a bug related to pursuers.

Watched again in a small test game against the AI. Points are not deducted from the camp owner until looting the camp finishes. This is as described in the help but not the way this is handled in FoG TT where the owner of the camp loses the attrition points as soon as the camp is contacted (if unfortified) or when the camp defenders are defeated (fortified) but before looting and CMTs to stop actually occur.

Hence using a camp as a cheap (possible two attrition points eventually) obstacle/fly paper sounds like a sound stratagem to me. No wonder the game kept trying to deploy the fly paper in the middle of the map (until that was fixed).

Chris