Slitherine

hI,

a BG of MF longbow, charge the flanc of a fragmented HF. they test and fail so thy rout to the direction of the charge and burst throught a BG of KN . The MF make a VMD +1 MU and touch the front of the KN.

Is it good ? or did the MF must stop 1 MU in front of the KN because they cannot pass a CMT to charge the KN to the front?

zeitoun wrote:hI,

a BG of MF longbow, charge the flanc of a fragmented HF. they test and fail so thy rout to the direction of the charge and burst throught a BG of KN . The MF make a VMD +1 MU and touch the front of the KN.

Is it good ? or did the MF must stop 1 MU in front of the KN because they cannot pass a CMT to charge the KN to the front?

If the HF broke at declaration the longbow do not roll a VMD. If they broke in the impact phase the longbow could choose or attempt* not to pursue.

However IIRC bow armed foot must CMT to charge even fragmented troops in flank. So must have passed a CMT to charge anyway. So then would have contacted the Kn if within 4MU

*at work so can't remember if pursuit for the bow is CMT to pursue or CMT not to pursue

If the HF broke at declaration the longbow do not roll a VMD

why?

If I wasn't at work I could tell you where it is in the rules. But its true, honest guv'.

I think you only roll a vmd if all your opponents have evaded. No one has evaded in this case.

Becuase not all the targets of the charge have evaded and it is not an initial pursuit ('cos it is a charge) - therefore, no VMD.

Becuase not all the targets of the charge have evaded and it is not an initial pursuit ('cos it is a charge) - therefore, no VMD.

ok , and what happen if the Kn is in the charge range. (with no VMD) Did the MFcontacted it?

philqw78 wrote:
However IIRC bow armed foot must CMT to charge even fragmented troops in flank.

Er ... I do not believe this is true Phil - no rules here but I believe they can charge a flank without testing ...

p. 60 - 1st and only bullet

" Non-shock medium foor whose front rank has, bow, longbow ... must pass a CMT to charge or intercept unbroken non-skirmishers (unless charging their flank or rear)." [emphasis mine]

So no CMT to charge the flank.

Good question about plowing into the Knights.

berthier wrote:p. 60 - 1st and only bullet

" Non-shock medium foot whose front rank has, bow, longbow ... must pass a CMT to charge or intercept unbroken non-skirmishers (unless charging their flank or rear)." [emphasis mine]

So no CMT to charge the flank.

Good question about plowing into the Knights.

I did not remember correctly, so they can charge, but if they did not pass a CMT before charging they would then not contact the Kn and stop short of them even if within 4MU.

I thought there was a discussion about this and the ruling was once a charge has been started it cannot be stop so a BG will move its full modified charge distance until it either hits an enemy BG or uses its movement up. So it the KN bg was with 4MU of the Longbows the longbows would hit them. Only skirmishers are allowed to up 1MU in front of non-skirmishers.

so, who gets the true answer ? Philqw78 or Black Prince ?

Vote NOW , for Philqw press 1 , for BalckPrince press 2.....

They are both correct - to a degree.

In your example the LB rolled a VMD +1 to contact the Kn. As Phil noted, you should not have rolled a VMD, so there is no contact. See Page 68.

If the Kn were within 4 MU of the charging LB, the LB would contact the Kn. The question of passing a CMT only applies to Skirmishers - Page 6o. So Skirmishers would not contact the Kn, the LB must do so.

thanks for the reply.

even if, i thought that the MF (missile troop) should stop in front of the KN because they c'ant charge the front whithout a CMT. IF they touch the flank or rear of the KN they should impact them, but to the front ?????

this is the same for a LH BG, who can't stop is charge if he touch the flank of a non skirmisher BG and who stop 1 MU if he touch the front.

IF they touch the flank or rear of the KN they should impact them, but to the front ?????

If it's a legal flank or rear charge then it counts as such. They only conform to the front if it does not qualify as flank or rear.

but to the front ?????

i just want to say that IMO they do not charge if they contact the front.

My english is so poor... I rerolled all my 6 when I try to write in english and i touch only on 5+.....

Thanks for your patience....

If they passed the CMT to make the initial charge they go in regardless of the target, so if knights get hit by bows to the front, not a good day to be a longbow. Once committed to a charge you take your chances and suffer the consequences.
Skirmishers don't like closing in with non-lights and are able to run away if things dont look so good so they can stop 1 MU short. MF are not that loose a formation so if they go its all or nothing. Sounds like it would have been better to just stand back and shoot those little lights down like the dogs that they are.

P52 (Declaration of Charges) makes it clear that there is no CMT taken if a potential target can only be impacted if the original target(s) evade or rout. There is no exception (other than that for Skirmishers) that stops any charger from impacting a target revealed in this way.

So, in this instance, as there is no VMD, you would know if the Bowmen would hit the knights if their original target routed, and could decide whether or not to risk charging accordingly.

thanks for all ...