Slitherine

I've always put a pike unit behind two pike front units thinking that they were benefiting from this rear unit for
moral test. After having read somewhere that pikes add the rear support already included in there cost, i'm wondering
whether it brings anything to put a pike unit behind two pike units to get the moral bonus?
(hope i was clear enough...)

spring wrote:I've always put a pike unit behind two pike front units thinking that they were benefiting from this rear unit for
moral test. After having read somewhere that pikes add the rear support already included in there cost, i'm wondering
whether it brings anything to put a pike unit behind two pike units to get the moral bonus?
(hope i was clear enough...)

In the TT game, pikes get POAs for 3rd and 4th ranks. In the PC game this is reflected by the POA for being above 75% strength. So pikes in the PC game get no combat bonus to their POA for rear support but do get the same cohesion test bonus as other BGs do for rear support.

Chris

Ah cool, good to know thank you

If someone doesn't mind sharing their tactics, I generally don't put phalanx units two deep because the rear ones are virtually guaranteed to be at least disrupted if the front units rout, and once disrupted the pikes are much less effective.

That said, maybe it is worth it to have the rear support bonus...what do other players do?

76mm wrote:If someone doesn't mind sharing their tactics, I generally don't put phalanx units two deep because the rear ones are virtually guaranteed to be at least disrupted if the front units rout, and once disrupted the pikes are much less effective.

That said, maybe it is worth it to have the rear support bonus...what do other players do?

I always put them two ranks deep, but the ratio between the 1st and 2nd rank is 2:1. All units have 2 rear hexes, so by halving the size of your 2nd rank, you can ensure that every unit has 1 empty hex to rout through, and 1 full hex to gain the cohesion test bonus from. This setup sometimes falls apart upon meeting the enemy, though, as I try and charge him or flank.

Now for my question... should I be charging my pikemen/offensive spearmen at the enemy, or should I be waiting for him to hit my lines with his infantry/cavalry? I read somewhere that spears/pikes only get certain bonuses, or at least only deny the opponent's bonuses, when they are repelling an attack launched upon them by the other unit, rather than charging.

If I am using my pike armies against an army with good infantry I will put them in 2 ranks each with the same number of units, but I leave a 1 hex gap between the ranks to allow for terrain order uneven movement etc. The rear rank can be used to fill any gaps that may appear in the front rank when I exploit gaps in the enemy line. Against armies with virtually no decent infantry put them in one rank so as to cover as wide a frontage as possible. Always I use LF in front of them as these can protect the pikes from missile fire and be used to trap faster troops such as other LF, MF and LH too if used right, once pinned the pikes charge in and destroy them, thus horse archer armies that get too close get slaughtered.

grumblefish wrote:Now for my question... should I be charging my pikemen/offensive spearmen at the enemy, or should I be waiting for him to hit my lines with his infantry/cavalry? I read somewhere that spears/pikes only get certain bonuses, or at least only deny the opponent's bonuses, when they are repelling an attack launched upon them by the other unit, rather than charging.

Alexander the Great used his pikes in a very aggressive way, as they were originally developed to be used. The Swiss centuries later were very aggressive pike armies. Basically pikes should be best used in an aggressive manner, no matter what rules are used this should pay off big time. If it doesn't and I do mean it fails time and again then you must question the rules as they will be flawed. Happily I can say that in these rules, pikes work really well and my Selecids have defeated Romans, Parthians and all manner of armies used in a VERY aggressive manner.

Taking a lucky guess from the TT rules that this would be the same, if you charge lancers you lose a POA as foot. If they charge you you get the POA for foot being charged. Other than that you should be ok to charge or take it but I honestly feel the die rolls seem to go against pikes that charge, personal experience but then my TT pikes always seem to do better than my PC pikes

grumblefish wrote: Now for my question... should I be charging my pikemen/offensive spearmen at the enemy, or should I be waiting for him to hit my lines with his infantry/cavalry? I read somewhere that spears/pikes only get certain bonuses, or at least only deny the opponent's bonuses, when they are repelling an attack launched upon them by the other unit, rather than charging.

I'm not a veteran in this game, but I also feel the die rolls punish the pikes when they charge.

I've slowly learned to avoid charging shock cav or lancers if in the open with my pikes/spears