Slitherine

We're 4 games down the line now, and we think we've got the hang of the mechanics, we know where the current gaps are and what we're doing locally to work around them quickly, we're using small armies (500 points), we're bypassing scouting, deployment, terrain, etc, we played at a pretty quick pace last night, both armies moving pretty much straight to contact with few delaying strategies (other than a scythed chariot charge at the outset), we've got a non-playing scribe doing the battle reports on the fly and Mark doing the waitress thing with the beer and wine, so no distractions .... and we were still probably no more than 2/3 of the way to an absolute conclusion after 3 hours.

How are the other testers doing in this respect?

So far I have only managed two test games, both 800 point 15mm. Neither have completed starting at about 7:30 and being packed up before midnight. We have spend a chunk of time on both occasions sorting out armies and have used all the rules.

There have been several rule queries that we have had to dig throught the rules for and we have a break for food. I think that without delay setting up and the food break we have played for perhaps three and a half hours. Both games were not concluded but were well developed and I felt there could have been a result in another hour or so.

What I can't remember is how long it took to play games of DBM or 7th edition when I started.

Hammy

I think it's hard to tell at this stage how long a game will last until people are more familiar. We are working hard to streamline the system to ensure the games are resolved in a reasonable time and will continue to do so.

I have only played one game so far. I ought to have reported on it sooner but can say it was a 25mm refight of Magnesia. I was Antiochos and smashed my way though lots of Roman Hastati and Principes on my right whilst the Pergamenes on the Roman right broke my left (dratted Arabs again!) and eventually enough of my army to win the game. A lot of the damage (as I recall it) was done by the cohesion tests rather than by fighting alone. I particularly remember the fate of my cataphracts on the left who never managed to launch their charge.

The true winners were the Roman Italian Cavalry who broke my Dahai, then some light troops and then took the biscuit (and the game) by capturing my undefended camp! And I don't suppose Scipio even rewarded them with Roman citizenship.

My opponent (one of the authors of the rules) worked out the armies before hand and we skipped terrain setting (Magnesia was flat so we only had a river on one flank) and deployment as we refought the battle in the historical line-up. Nevertheless we were able to finish the game including putting out the figures and picking them up again in, I suspect, no more than four hours. This compares quite well with some other game systems. In this case I am comparing 'like with like' as, playing with one of the authors, he knew the rules and there was the minimum of reading them to check what was required. I think I caught on quite well.

I was impressed with the game overall as, to me, our game did give the impression of an ancient battle - at least to my limited impression from reading the history. I particularly like tha fact that all troops can move each turn - at least straight forward, and are not left at the back for no good reason that I could ever understand.

Michael Lane

We are playing 800 points at the moment (usually Imperial Romans vs. Early Germans) and it takes us long - roughly 6,5 hours per game. If you deduct 2 hours per game for rule reading and interpretation we are still at 4,5 hours.

Thorsten

Our game was 800 points as well.

Michael

I think that the next game I play will be 600 points just ts see how much difference a smaller force makes.

I did some rough calculations on my 800 point French army and figured I had about 560 DBM AP on the table so an 800 point game is pretty huge really.

Hammy

We've been playing 800pts as well and getting in about 5 bounds an evening. We are going to try 600pts, but it seems like a very small number of units - only about 8 or so. A few bad dice throws and it will be all over... Plus I wonder with so few units on the table whether the armies will get lost on the table. We'll find out next Tuesday I suppose!

Still it would be nice to take a game to conclusion to see how the end game pans out.

Well first of all thanks for putting in all the hours. I takes a while with any new set of rules, even when they are finished - and even moreso in the test phase. The development team is very interested in the length of time taken to play games and how this changes as people get used to the rules so your posting on this are especially useful.

In Vs 2 - which should be out soon - we have taken a number of steps to reduce some of the dice rolling and hopefully this will help speed things along. The rules are also much clearer than they were which should also help the speed.

In terms of data for us, one thing that is useful is to have an idea of how long different bits of the rules are taking and which bits do not feel good value for money. E.g, Terrain system and set up. Deployment. Skirmishing fire. CMT tests at different stages. etc. Any thoughts on these much appreciated.

As some of you have done already, its really helpful to get a sense of how much time was taken up by rule debate/interpretation or recording the game thoroughly (which makes for great game reports, thank you), rather than time spent just playing. If you can give a feel for how long the game would take to complete without debating interpretations or recording it gives us a feel for how long the games might take in final form.

We'll be very keen to see how you feel the speed is progressing with the new rule improvements and your increasingly familiarity with the mechanisms. So keep the data on this one coming each time.

Thanks

Si

In our game last night I timed each of the phases for each of the bounds. I will be including this with the battle report which should be available sometime this week. We also talked over the reasons for this and I will include the notes from those conversations with the battle report.