Slitherine

Currently undrilled cavalry is at a major disadvantage compared to drilled cavalry due to the inability to change facing after moving. (Bow armed is an exception to this to some degree due to the free face when shooting.) While undrilled cavalry is not completely equivalent to drilled cavalry in the TT rules, the only difference for movement is that it is easier for drilled cavalry to expand frontage than undrilled and undrilled cavalry is not as good at passing CMTs. How hard would it be to change undrilled cavalry in FoG PC to allow it a limited change of face at the end of its move, e.g. let it change one vertex either way of where it facing is at the end of movement? This would still leave it somewhat inferior to drilled cavalry but make it much closer. It would also cut out a lot of the fiddling required now to check out the possible moves for undrilled cavalry to get it to end facing the way I want it to so would also enhance playability.

Chris

Hear, hear!

Deeter

I also agree but don't get me started on moving to the rear again!

Let me express a total agreement with the statement of Batesmotel.
Hoping someone of the good guys of Slitherine will hear our pledge!

Totally agree, undrilled cav perform nothing like they do on the TT version because of this.

P.

one more in total agmt--don't know about TT, but undrilled cav is of very limited utility!

At the risk of being alone here I disagree... Not considering realism but overall gameplay and diversity, having drilled /undrilled makes the game much more dynamic. An army with good quality but undrilled cavalry really needs to plan from turn 1 his strategy and see it executed with decision and timing...when it works it is very rewarding.

I would like to see undrilled cav get a single hex side facing change as well. It will reflect the fact that undrilled cav can move easier than the foot boys can. I have felt that undrilled cav is unfairly treated in the PC game for a while now too. Lets all hope for a positive change

Allow undrilled cav one free facing change at the begining or end of their movement but not as a prelude to a charge. This would mave them less funky.

Deeter

Another problem with Undrilled vs Drilled armies in this version of the game is the way the units are put together on the battlefield. In TT you have battle groups of 2-12 stands that fight as a single formation. Here each model is roughly equivelent to two stands and each model moves individually. This gives even more tactical flexibility to drilled units than what they have on the TT version of the game. All to often the armies in up is a swirling mass melee with units all over the place and the undrilled units get repeatedly charged from the rear arc because they just cannot maneuver. In the TT version a battle group (2-12 stands) cannot move untill all units are unegaged. With the PC version - as soon as there is an opening the drilled models can scoot right on through and now you have a drilled unit spinning around and read to engage your rear arc. I think that this difference in basing and battle group organization and movement is the heart of the problem with drilled vs undrilled units. A lot of the ideas for modifying the undrilled units are good, but it may be easier to simply raise the cost of drilled units. This would result in a bigger difference in the size of the opposing armies, and gives the undrille units more of that "wild barbarian feel (as the horde decends into their victems!" Being a drilled unit in this game has far more impact tha units in the PC Version.

I sometims think units should be multi-hex. So a legion should occupy three hexes (two front, one rear - a rougly triangular formation) and a phalanx perhaps be rhomboid, maybe 3x2. Cavalry 2x1 and lights single hex. But it's not going to happen...

Part of me agrees that manouevre is too easy. But I think the relative manoeverability of drilled and undrilled is about right. If either is adjusted to make manoeuvre less easy, I think both need to be. But slowing manoeuvering down would slow the game down, and I'm not certain that's to the good.

that was brought up in beta, and it was an original design idea that didn't work out so they went to single hex units.
Yes the PC game units can move better than the TT ones can, its a trade off of playability in the end.

That is why I would adjust the point values for drilled units up by one. The drilled units in the PC version is more effective than in TT but they have not adjusted the points to reflect this. They have done similiar point adjustments for other units like Pikemen.