Slitherine

A unit of LH in a 2x2 wheels 90 degrees, the distance is measured in a straight line from the outside edge at start of wheel to outside edge at end of wheel. About 4 1/2 inches, happy with this.

A unit of LH in a 2x2 wheels 180 degrees, the distance is measured in a straight line from the outside edge at start of wheel to outside edge at end of wheel. About 6 1/2 inches, happy with this too.

A unit of LH in a 2x2 wheels 270 degrees, the distance is measured in a straight line from the outside edge at start of wheel to outside edge at end of wheel. About 4 1/2 inches, not happy with this. How can a unit wheel more than 180 degrees and claim it has moved less distance.

Im sure this has been covered on forum before but can't find it, someone please enlighten me.

Think it has been covered before. But it was thought not worth bothering with complicating the rules, as they can turn 180, or 90 the other way, and end in roughly the same spot and then move further (with a single wheel).

From watching games it seems that most people forget that they can do this and roll a CMT to wheel back and turn again.

david53 wrote:Turns

Turn 180 deg move up to 3mu in a simple advance and turn back again. This is a complex move the only move as such by skirmishers therefore requiring a CMT people don't forget they have to roll a CMT

Yvette Fielding wrote:Or did he? Ooooooooh!

No people roll a CMT to turn, go backwards and then turn to front again, when they could wheel and turn once in all sorts of different combinations but ending further away without CMT.

They CMT when they do not need to, fail, then give up and move away or sit and wait for the inevitable.

A 270 degree single wheel is not legal, because:

See the glossary:

Advance: A move listed in the Advance section of the Simple and Complex Moves table in the General Movement Rules section. It must result in at least part of the battle group ending further forward than its original front edge.

OTOH this can be evaded by doing a double wheel.

This is something we intend to address in due course.

rbodleyscott wrote:A 270 degree single wheel is not legal, because:

See the glossary:

Advance: A move listed in the Advance section of the Simple and Complex Moves table in the General Movement Rules section. It must result in at least part of the battle group ending further forward than its original front edge.

OTOH this can be evaded by doing a double wheel.

This is something we intend to address in due course.

So what are LH doing when they do a simple advance with a 180 degree turn first?

philqw78 wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:A 270 degree single wheel is not legal, because:

See the glossary:

Advance: A move listed in the Advance section of the Simple and Complex Moves table in the General Movement Rules section. It must result in at least part of the battle group ending further forward than its original front edge.

OTOH this can be evaded by doing a double wheel.

This is something we intend to address in due course.

So what are LH doing when they do a simple advance with a 180 degree turn first?

They are not making an advance, the are making a turn followed by a simple advance. Check the wording in the rules.

So how does the wording of the rules define a 180 then a 270?

So if a unit advances forward 1mm then wheels 270 degrees it has finished with some part of the BG ahead of the starting position. The side edge after the wheel is 1mm ahead of where the BG started. This fulfills the note in the advances section. Correct?

This is not just about LH either, any other troops (excluding HF) in a column could also do these moves.

fatismo wrote:So if a unit advances forward 1mm then wheels 270 degrees it has finished with some part of the BG ahead of the starting position. The side edge after the wheel is 1mm ahead of where the BG started. This fulfills the note in the advances section. Correct?

Sadly yes.

Is there a problem with limiting wheels in an advance to a maximum of 180 degrees?

Lycanthropic wrote:Is there a problem with limiting wheels in an advance to a maximum of 180 degrees?

Even with this rule, a BG that is 2 bases wide could "about face" with 4 MU of movement (i.e., 80mm + a gnat's todger of forward move) pivoting on one corner.

Edit - that is actually wrong. They need 160mm of move, so only LH could do this.

Spike

Lycanthropic wrote:Is there a problem with limiting wheels in an advance to a maximum of 180 degrees?

None at all except that it isn't in the rules. In FOGR we have limited all wheels to a maximum of 90 degrees.

rbodleyscott wrote:

Lycanthropic wrote:Is there a problem with limiting wheels in an advance to a maximum of 180 degrees?

None at all except that it isn't in the rules. In FOGR we have limited all wheels to a maximum of 90 degrees.

This sounds much better! Could this just be put into an upcoming FAQ????

Blathergut wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:

Lycanthropic wrote:Is there a problem with limiting wheels in an advance to a maximum of 180 degrees?

None at all except that it isn't in the rules. In FOGR we have limited all wheels to a maximum of 90 degrees.

This sounds much better! Could this just be put into an upcoming FAQ????

Would that not require more than an entry in the FAQ ie an amendment for the future? All being that people agree that something is broken of course.

I like the idea of a wheel being max. 90....do a second one for 180 but it would be twice the movement. It's always seemed that the prob isn't with the rules but someone wheeling more than the 90 or more than 180 and measuring the distance corner to corner instead of say from corner to corner of the first 90 and then corner to corner of 2nd 90 which has always seemed more in spirit of the rules.

Blathergut wrote:I like the idea of a wheel being max. 90....do a second one for 180 but it would be twice the movement. It's always seemed that the prob isn't with the rules but someone wheeling more than the 90 or more than 180 and measuring the distance corner to corner instead of say from corner to corner of the first 90 and then corner to corner of 2nd 90 which has always seemed more in spirit of the rules.

In FOGR it is a total of 90 degrees - i.e. you cannot wheel more by doing a double wheel.