Slitherine

If I'm charging a BG of fragmented LF, LH, or Cav which is allowed to evade, do they have to do a cohesion test before evading (as every other fragmented troop has to test if they break as a result of the charge) or are they allowed to use the evade-option without testing their cohesion?

They test cohesion because they are fragmented when charged.

If they pass they have all the normal options, so may evade if appropriate.

If I'm charging a BG of fragmented LF, LH, or Cav which is allowed to evade

Note that this includes Cavalry Lancers who can evade in this circumstance....

dave_r wrote:

If I'm charging a BG of fragmented LF, LH, or Cav which is allowed to evade

Note that this includes Cavalry Lancers who can evade in this circumstance....

What page is this in I can't see it anywere?

david53 wrote:

dave_r wrote:

If I'm charging a BG of fragmented LF, LH, or Cav which is allowed to evade

Note that this includes Cavalry Lancers who can evade in this circumstance....

What page is this in I can't see it anywere?

No page numbers here at work, but: 1) fragged BGs are not shock troops; 2) non-shock cavalry can evade.

Marc

david53 wrote:

dave_r wrote:

If I'm charging a BG of fragmented LF, LH, or Cav which is allowed to evade

Note that this includes Cavalry Lancers who can evade in this circumstance....

What page is this in I can't see it anywere?

Effects of being fragmented. Shock troops are no longer shock troops thus fragemented cavalry lancers in a single rank can evade as they are not shock troops who can't. See P114

hammy wrote:

david53 wrote:

dave_r wrote: Note that this includes Cavalry Lancers who can evade in this circumstance....

What page is this in I can't see it anywere?

Effects of being fragmented. Shock troops are no longer shock troops thus fragemented cavalry lancers in a single rank can evade as they are not shock troops who can't. See P114

Seen the page now but never seen it happen in the games i have played at least.

david53 wrote:

hammy wrote:

david53 wrote:
What page is this in I can't see it anywere?

Effects of being fragmented. Shock troops are no longer shock troops thus fragemented cavalry lancers in a single rank can evade as they are not shock troops who can't. See P114

Seen the page now but never seen it happen in the games i have played at least.

I managed to pull it off at Britcon and I think on another occasion I could have done it but failed the CT for being charged (which is usually at -3 for fragemented and 25% dead).

kevinj wrote:They test cohesion because they are fragmented when charged.

If they pass they have all the normal options, so may evade if appropriate.

What if a pursuing BG would contact a fragmented BG of LH?
A pursuing BG counts only as charging if they actually contact a BG but evading is allowed BEFORE the contact is made.

See page 108, 9th and 10th bullet.

Mehrunes wrote:

kevinj wrote:They test cohesion because they are fragmented when charged.

If they pass they have all the normal options, so may evade if appropriate.

What if a pursuing BG would contact a fragmented BG of LH?
A pursuing BG counts only as charging if they actually contact a BG but evading is allowed BEFORE the contact is made.

See page 108, 9th and 10th bullet.

If a pursuing BG would contact another BG then the pursuing BG becomes a charging BG and the target of the charge responds appropriately.

Mehrunes wrote:What if a pursuing BG would contact a fragmented BG of LH?
A pursuing BG counts only as charging if they actually contact a BG but evading is allowed BEFORE the contact is made.

See page 108, 9th and 10th bullet.

But a BG may not evade unless contact can be made. A viscous circle

hammy wrote:

Mehrunes wrote:

kevinj wrote:They test cohesion because they are fragmented when charged.

If they pass they have all the normal options, so may evade if appropriate.

What if a pursuing BG would contact a fragmented BG of LH?
A pursuing BG counts only as charging if they actually contact a BG but evading is allowed BEFORE the contact is made.

See page 108, 9th and 10th bullet.

If a pursuing BG would contact another BG then the pursuing BG becomes a charging BG and the target of the charge responds appropriately.

But that is not exactly what the rules say. The pursuing BG isn't a charging BG until it actually contacts , not would contact. That's a slight, but important difference.
But the fragmented BG is explicitly allowed to evade if it would be contacted.

Mehrunes wrote:But that is not exactly what the rules say. The pursuing BG isn't a charging BG until it actually contacts , not would contact. That's a slight, but important difference.
But the fragmented BG is explicitly allowed to evade if it would be contacted.

I think you are trying to read far too much into that.

Mehrunes wrote:But that is not exactly what the rules say. The pursuing BG isn't a charging BG until it actually contacts , not would contact. That's a slight, but important difference.
But the fragmented BG is explicitly allowed to evade if it would be contacted.

The sticky argument again, because if it evades it will not be contacted. A paradox thingy.

I'm reading what the rules say. No interpretation needed. I think it needs clarification.

Mehrunes wrote:I'm reading what the rules say. No interpretation needed. I think it needs clarification.

So you would change the bullet about contacting to 'would contact' then? If so I could argue by the same logic that if a BG of fragmented troops who do not have the option to evade is in the path of a pursuing BG that they don't have to take a CT because they are being contacted, not 'would be' contacted

Is a shock BG within charge reach of a routed BG required to charge or take a cmt not to charge? Or can it ignore the routing BG?

wildone wrote:Is a shock BG within charge reach of a routed BG required to charge or take a cmt not to charge? Or can it ignore the routing BG?

Yes, it is required to test not to charge.

Thanks,
sorry this was supposed to go in another thread.

hammy wrote:

Mehrunes wrote:I'm reading what the rules say. No interpretation needed. I think it needs clarification.

So you would change the bullet about contacting to 'would contact' then? If so I could argue by the same logic that if a BG of fragmented troops who do not have the option to evade is in the path of a pursuing BG that they don't have to take a CT because they are being contacted, not 'would be' contacted

If it has not the option to evade, the fact that it would be contacted is enough for forcing the test, so why not?
The problem arises because at the moment only the actual contact makes it a charge and you are allowed to evade would-be contacters, not necessarily chargers.
The fact that both bullets are written as they are leads to the assumption it was intended that you can evade pursuers with fragmented battlegroups.
Otherwise it could have been written much more clearer.

It should say something like "if the pursuers can reach an enemy battlegroup with their pursue move, treat this as a normal charge" and all is okay.