Slitherine

It seems that there may be a bug in the GS game or at least my version v1.01.

I am now in March '42 and have had focus research on dogfight with both the germans and italians. The Germans have gotten to 3 completed research levels and are almost on the 4th.

I have not really come up against Russian air as yet and didnt take too much note of the apparent average results achieved against the UK. I have just started to encounter Russian air and noticed that I was getting the snot beaten out of me by the russians.

My fighters are level 11 versus level 4 russians - they have higher effectivness and keep on losing or getting very average results. I then checked the factors and noticed that the german fighters had air attack 3 while the russians have air attack 5. I then checked my Italians they have air attack 6 - even my strat bomber has air attack 2 just one less then the fighters.

Is this just me, the version or is this a more generic issue?

But it seems to me that the germans and allies do not benefit from there dogfight upgrades although the Italians seem unaffected.

Can others please check this and comment.

I guess your units are in winter weather. The Russian combat values are not reduced by winter or severe winter, only reduced movement. Only mud weather will affect Russian combat values.

Air and shock factors are halved during winter (rounded up), attack factors are reduced by 1 (-2 for armor). So with the German tech advance it means their air units can engage the Russians on even terms during the winter in 1941, but later the Russian units will have the upper hand in dogfights during winter.

Aha - sorry this is me not knowing the changes well enough.

I think this winter penalty to Axis air is way too steep. It is not as if the Russians suddenly had air superiority come the first winter (or the second, for that matter). Winter effects hit the Red Air Force as well, they had the same problems as the Axis counterparts. Maybe a better solution would be to have Axis halved, and the Russians reduced by third. This way the Russians can still challenge in winter but not rule the skies without any trouble before 1943.

trulster wrote:I think this winter penalty to Axis air is way too steep. It is not as if the Russians suddenly had air superiority come the first winter (or the second, for that matter). Winter effects hit the Red Air Force as well, they had the same problems as the Axis counterparts. Maybe a better solution would be to have Axis halved, and the Russians reduced by third. This way the Russians can still challenge in winter but not rule the skies without any trouble before 1943.

Below is a screencap that I posted in the, "Soviets are too Strong" (which I don't think that they are) thread:
viewtopic.php?p=122313#122313

This screenshot is from my game with Borger at the beginning of my October 15, 1942 turn. I don't think the Red airforce will rule the skies when winter hits. I will use them and I need them and their advantage to push the axis back. I'm afraid that without the Soviet winter air advantage that they currently enjoy in GS that my planned 1942 winter offensive would stall way too fast. If may still stall sooner than I'd like but at least now I feel I have a chance to make some progress and start turning the tide in Russia.

So, based on my game experience I feel the Soviet winter air advantage is about right.

trulster wrote:I think this winter penalty to Axis air is way too steep. It is not as if the Russians suddenly had air superiority come the first winter (or the second, for that matter). Winter effects hit the Red Air Force as well, they had the same problems as the Axis counterparts. Maybe a better solution would be to have Axis halved, and the Russians reduced by third. This way the Russians can still challenge in winter but not rule the skies without any trouble before 1943.

The Russians won't have air superiority in 1941 or 1942 because of the winter effects. It's more like the Axis lose their air superiority and you get air parity. The Russian air values are far below the Axis and that means they stay at air attack 4 or 5 (if new dogfight tech has arrived). The Germans start at air attack 6 before the winter begins and drop to 3. Since they have better survivability of their fighter it means they receive less damage in dogfights. The Russians have temporarily better air attack so the dogfights often end with similar losses.

Germany usually has better efficiency and that's important too, but soon after the severe winter starts this is reversed so the German fighters should be in sentry mode for a few turns until they've regained some efficiency.

The Germans bombers inflict less damage during the winter, but they still inflict some damage. So if you desperately need to kill a spearhead you can use the bombers to do some damage before attacking the hex with land units.

The Russian air units have no chance against full strength German air units. So the winter effect means the Russians can afford to use their air units to initiate combat. In 1941 they only have some air units, but these will become more dangerous in 1942 and later. This means that the Russians will finally be
able to launch strong attacks during the winter from 1942 and later. This is really necessary for the Russians to have a chance to kick Germany out of Russia in time to take Berlin in 1945.

We noticed during playtesting that the introduction of bad weather actually hampered the Russians as much as the Germans. Initially they also had the same reduced combat values during bad weather. So they became too weak to make any winter attacks. That was not historical at all when we know about the famous Russian winter attacks in every year until the war ended. So by only letting the Russians have reduced combat effects during MUD weather it means they can finally launch winter offensives and the Germans must be prepared for that.

I think that one reason players feel the Russians are too strong is because they attack every turn during the Summer and Fall without resting. Suddenly the severe winter begins and they're already exhausted units drop a further 35 in efficiency. That means the Germans get down to orange or red efficiency and all Axis minors down to red. That is just an invitation for the Russians to destroy these units. So a good Axis player will actually dig in a bit early and regain efficiency before the bad weather begins. If you're too greedy in 1941 you will lose both the terrain you captured and many units. I usually let my German line stop 1-2 hexes from the Russian line. That means the Russians can't get to my defense line on the first turn of severe winter due to ZOC. That helps a bit and I can retreat if the Russians move in force.

Some German players even stop along the Dnepr line in 1941, thus being 4-5 hexes away from the main Russian line. Then they don't have to retreat at all and can just wait for the Russians to come. You have to unlearn some of the techniques you learnt in the CeaW vanilla game or the BJR mod when you play GS. That's part of the fun. You have to discover what works best playing with variable weather.