Slitherine

Would some kind soul please post or link to a good neo-Assyrian list, I mean Ashurbanipal. Thanks![/i]

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Would some kind soul please post or link to a good neo-Assyrian list, I mean Ashurbanipal. Thanks![/i]

I play assyrians a lot and my base list is something like the following.

1 IC, 2 TC

Drilled Troops:
4 HCH Sup
4 Cav Sup Arm Bw*LsSw
4 Cav Sup Arm Bw*LsSw (half BwSw, half LsSw)
4 Cav Sup Arm Bw*LsSw (half BwSw, half LsSw)
4 Av LH Bow (scouts)
6 HF/LF Sup Arm (2/3 LsSw, 1/3 LF with Bw)
8 HF Av Arm (half BwSW, half LsSw)
8 MF Av Prot (half BwSW, half LsSw)
8 MF Av Prot (half BwSW, half LsSw)
4 MF Av UnPr Bow (Nubian Regiment)

Undrilled Troops
4 LF Pr JavLSp
6 LF Pr Bow
6 LF Pr Bow
6 Mob

FF as needed or boost quality of LF

- sometimes drop the IC and aim to move first with the drilled troops to get the jump
- sometimes drop a cav LF and the MF to sixes to take a scythian ally
- am currently planning a Libyan egyptian ally for 2 BGS of superior impact foot and one or two BGs of LCh

Anthony

Thanks for that. Is this the consensus -- lots of cavalry and regular MF with a smattering of HCH and HF, plus the mob?

This is a list that I've used that provides a bit more mobility and relies less on the infantry for offensive ability. If I was going to use it again I would probably replace the Guard Infantry with a unit of the Armoured spearman since they would better add to the other infantry as a base of bow fire. The problem with only one unit of 4 HCh is that they die too quickly once in melee or if under sustained missile fire.
Chris

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Thanks for that. Is this the consensus -- lots of cavalry and regular MF with a smattering of HCH and HF, plus the mob?

To elaborate:
- I only take the mob sometimes when there is 16 points to spare and I already have 3 BGs of LF.
- Two BGs of six drilled MF are ok and leave more points for a more mounted oriented army.
- The chariots are not game winners as they are harder to keep out of trouble. 1 BG is plenty. Looking at the minimums and maximums if you are thinking a late Assyrian army cav should be predominant anyway (over chariots).

I usually include both the guard and HF armoured chaps as only one BG of HF are more of a liability. Same goes when there is only one BG of MF.

I think that the HF, especially armoured, is one of the things that gives this army an edge in period. This is a list I've used, but not in a tournament:

4 U/D LF Poor U/P JLS
8 U/D LF Poor U/P Sling
6 U/D LF Poor U/P Sling
6 U/D LF Poor U/P Bow

6 Dr MF Ave Prot 1/2 LS/Sw 1/2 Bow
6 Dr MF Ave Prot 1/2 LS/Sw 1/2 Bow
8 Dr HF Ave Prot 1/2 LS/Sw 1/2 Bow
4 Dr MF Ave U/P Bow

4 Dr HF Sup Arm LS/Sw
4 Dr HF Sup Arm LS/Sw
8 Dr HF Sup Arm 1/2 LS/Sw 1/2 Bow
4 U/D LH Ave U/P Bw/Sw

4 Dr HCh Sup Bow
4 Dr Cav Sup 1/2 LS/Sw 1/2 Bow/Sw
4 Dr Cav Sup 1/2 LS/Sw 1/2 Bow/Sw

4 Tcs

This is the (800 point) army which won Warfare this year (by dint of superb dice throwing - including the fortuitous failure of a death roll on one critical occasion that turned probable defeat in the last round into glorious victory, by removing a deadly flank pinning situation):

C-in-C TC - - - - - - CinC 1
SG TC - - - - - - - 3
1 Tribal levies LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Bow - - - 8
2 Tribal levies LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Sling - - - 8
3 Mounted scouts LH Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - - 4
4 Armoured spearmen HF Armoured Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4
4 MF Armoured Average Drilled Bow - - - 4
5 Unarmoured spearmen HF Protected Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4
5 MF Protected Average Drilled Bow - - - 4
6 Egyptian regiment MF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - - 4 (Provides rear support for the 2 BGs of HF)
7 Cavalry Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 2
7 Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow - Swordsmen - 2
8 Cavalry Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 2
8 Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bow - Swordsmen - 2
9 Heavy chariots HCh - Superior Drilled Bow - - - 4
10 Unarmoured spearmen MF Protected Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4
10 MF Protected Average Drilled Bow - - - 4
11 Unarmoured spearmen MF Protected Average Drilled - Light spear Swordsmen - 4
11 MF Protected Average Drilled Bow - - - 4
12 Heavy chariots HCh - Superior Drilled Bow - - - 4

This more or less corresponds to the figures I had available, but I don't think I would change anything if I had more figures. In particular , having the HF and MF in BGs of 8 instead of 6 had major benefits.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Thanks for that. Is this the consensus -- lots of cavalry and regular MF with a smattering of HCH and HF, plus the mob?

I think it really depends. I think some people want any army to be more mounted oriented and will always buy more mounted.

In the Early Neo Assyrian list, I do run it at the club with lots of mounted that is protected. Then rely on a lot of foot.

I think you will mostly see 2 BGs of Heavy Chariots plus chariot generals.

My revised list and notes after battle experience:

IC - - - - - - - 1
TC - - - - - - - 2
Tribal Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 6
Tribal Levies - Slingers LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Sling - - - 6
Tribal Levies - Slingers LF Unprotected Poor Undrilled Sling - - - 6
Mounted Scouts LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 4
Unarmoured Spearmen MF Protected Average Drilled - Light Spear Swordsmen - 3
-- Supporting Archers MF Protected Average Drilled Bow - - - 3
Armoured Spearmen HF Armoured Average Drilled - Light Spear Swordsmen - 3
-- Supporting Archers MF Armoured Average Drilled Bow - - - 3
Armoured Spearmen HF Armoured Average Drilled - Light Spear Swordsmen - 3
-- Supporting Archers MF Armoured Average Drilled Bow - - - 3
Chariots HCh - Superior Drilled Bow - - - 4
Chariots HCh - Superior Drilled Bow - - - 4
Guard Cavalry Cv Armoured Superior Drilled Bw* Light Spear Swordsmen - 4
Guard Infantry HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Light Spear Swordsmen - 4
Guard Infantry HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Light Spear Swordsmen - 4
Unarmoured Spearmen MF Protected Average Drilled - Light Spear Swordsmen - 3
-- Supporting Archers MF Protected Average Drilled Bow - - - 3
Delta Force (Egypt/Kushite) MF Unprotected Average Drilled Bow - - - 4

NEO-ASSYRIAN 680: This date allows HF large shields and MF small shields. Doctrine is to shoot the enemy, charging only if opportune. CHANGES FROM 1: 4 TC, now IC+2TC as this is shooty with lots of Avg, 1 LF Slinger up to Bow, one down to Poor, and 4 Poor Javs now 6 Poor Slingers who may be of some screen/harass use. Also, Guard Cav Elites didn't see much use and now Superior, 9-base Guard now 2x4 HF. Overall count now 14 BGs. Chariots and HF work together in open ground, though the HF can shoot well from terrain as well. The MF are intended to occupy and shoot from terrain, though terrain is not sought except against a chariot or other mounted foe. The 2 chariot BGs are needed for flexibility. Since they are non-skirmishers, taking more is risky since there are opponents they really don't like. The Guard Cavalry is chosen for shock value in period, rear support ability, skirmish ability, and shooting with 2 dice. My thinking is it deploys behind the chariots if they attack, though it could also skirmish foot in a pinch. The Guard infantry can rear support the other foot and are somewhat of a deterrent to opponents - rather slow for flankers but still nimble. The armoured foot shooters are the base of fire supporting the chariots as they attack, resistant to shooting, and decent in close combat as well. The 2 MF small shields are basically upgraded archers for terrain or possible rear support/maneuver. The slingers are points efficient utility and 4 MU shooters to work with the Chariots, the Bow LF are actually expected to seriously shoot. This army has many possilbe allies but those are to try later - likely choices are Cimmerian shooty mounted or LCh forces, though I'm not sure LCh add much.
* Strengths of the army: drilled, heavy shooting, good combined arms, ability to deal with terrain. Weaknesses: armoured Spearmen or Impact foot will give it trouble and it has no ideal counter-EL or counter-KN troops in opens.
* Terrain: Seek open room for chariots, and if the enemy lacks terrain strength, try for some central terrain we can control and shoot from - dividing the battle in two parts. Shooting lets us deal well with hills, otherwise we generally want to block placement so would try for open areas when placing second. Placing first, open is useful. Being drilled and liking the open, Impassable depressions or water are attractive. which work for us, but usually we deploy second so pick open areas if any left. LH and EL like Uneven, and Kn/Cats and Chariots are fragmented by Rough. We simply need to keep Chariots out of terrain.

Q1:Skirmish start. Bow are intended to fight in aid of other shooters so go where there are likely targets. Slingers can skirmish non-shooty foot - advance in center to delay briefly and then fall back. The LH on the open wing most likely, or in the center if in doubt.
Q2: The large shields deploy together with a view to having rear support behind them later. Guards can do this in the rear, or on a flank. The first light BG goes to deal with obvious terrain - it can be supplemented later or not.
Q3: The Chariots and Cav can be brigaded all together for shock action, or Chariots split and the Cav with one or deployed as a feint and adjust later with one TC assigned.
Q4: Second Guard infantry deploys to reinforce the HF or support other troops. The other small shields deploy to join the first to sweep terrain or in rear support of the large shields or some other role favoring their mobility. The Delta Force is put either as rear support where it can deploy through the line or on a flank, with the chariots to help them shoot, or elsewhere to add dice. Against Chariots any terrain works well for them.


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I have resisted going heavily into the Cavalry although that might be optimal overall - for a chariot army should have at least 2 BGs of chariots. I am intrigued by Richard's 8 base experience - it seemed to be too few manoeuvre elements and by taking smaller BGs I get rear support/reserves. One large guard unit is avoidable by enemy.

Thanks for the answers. So if I go with one non-essential troop type, it's looks like that should be egypto-Nubian archers rather than levies. Good to know!

I have already passed on the specs to the sculptor. The project should be complete late spring to early summer of this year.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Thanks for the answers. So if I go with one non-essential troop type, it's looks like that should be egypto-Nubian archers rather than levies. Good to know!

Yes, the delta force can be very handy if one doesn't get it killed.

Followup question -- why does everyone use the scouts instead of the cimmerian regiment with swordsman?

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Followup question -- why does everyone use the scouts instead of the cimmerian regiment with swordsman?

They are cheaper and skirmish just as well. With only one unit of LH, you aren't likely to want to get them stuck in melee where the swordsman ability makes a difference.

Chris

Thanks for that!

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Followup question -- why does everyone use the scouts instead of the cimmerian regiment with swordsman?

I used Cimmerian. Mainly because I couldn't spend points elsewhere.

Also in period the sword armed LH are immensly more valuable.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Followup question -- why does everyone use the scouts instead of the cimmerian regiment with swordsman?

To save 8AP, the swords are very handy but then sometimes you have to economize somewhere...

So Assyrian scouts it is then.

I think I'm going to have them placed on the same mould as the skirmishing tribal levies, rather than spend $100US for a separate mould for models most people will buy eight of. So the mould will have multiples of:

two poses of skirmishing horse scouts
2 x two poses of skirmishing foot archers
2 x two poses of skirmishing foot slingers

That looks like it's roughly the proportion most of you have been using (or numbers to that effect). Four spins of that mould get me eight horse archers, 16 foot slingers, and 16 foot archers.

Mould costs add up, especially with a complicated army like this, so I have to be careful about them. How does that sound?

Only thing I am worried about is that lots of people will order scouts who don't order anything else! Because (IIRC) no one makes Assyrian scouts. So I'll have to spin the mould over and over to get lots of surplus archers/slingers just to get those scouts. This happened to me with the Byzantines -- everyone wanted Menavlatoi!