Slitherine

Hi

If you were using an army with limited or no light cavalry, would you usually take a fortified camp if it's available ?

How would you make the points saving required ?

Pete

I am making a Classic Indian army so I am seriously thinking a fortified camp would be a good thing since its mostly unarmoured MF with bow and not a lot of heavy hitting stuff and I would most likely be fighting Romans. Its a cheap army so 1 battle group can go away to make the camp fortified which is better than losing 2 points to some sneaky Romans skulking around my rear.

An army with limited manoeuvre ability is likely to benefit from a fortified camp, especially if it is small. I hvae one in my Medieval french list (not actually played it yet) but with only 1 unit of Light Foot it is an easy army to go around.

deadtorius wrote:I am making a Classic Indian army so I am seriously thinking a fortified camp would be a good thing since its mostly unarmoured MF with bow and not a lot of heavy hitting stuff and I would most likely be fighting Romans. Its a cheap army so 1 battle group can go away to make the camp fortified which is better than losing 2 points to some sneaky Romans skulking around my rear.

Romans will take forever to get to your camp if you are preventing double moves well. The only things likely to make it are roman cav or LF/LH. Spend the points on the extra BG of archers and leave them to guard the camp if you must. They should be ok at seeing of the faster roman troops. Also with such a large army they shouldnt be able to sneak around anyway. Assuming a bit of terrain about. I'd be more worried about all of your troops having no answer to legionnaires.

Of course they have an answer... die en masse and then prepare for the next line to take it. Have to rely on elephants and chariots I think to keep the Legions from the camp, but yes some archers out back playing guard would save 24 points, which could make another unit since this one is full of cheap troops. I can only hope all that bow fire will show some affect, otherwise it will be Indians versus Spanish I think as they are unarmoured and undrilled so more of a fair match up perhaps

I've never taken a non-compulsory fortified camp.

Better to plan on losing your camp and spend the points on something useful.

But Phil Powell used one to very good effect when he won Britcon this year.

Every time I have used a fortified camp; it fell on the first attempt

Now there were several times when the sacking unit spent the rest of the game
enjoying the spoils and were out of the game

John

Hi,

I am in the middle of a series of battles between a Classical Indian army v My Warring States Chinese. At present the score is 1 close victory to Indians (mainly due to terrain and the first time I had used Mixed battle groups) against 3 thumping victories for the Chinese (13 to nil in the last game). Forget the fortified camp, you need the points to maximise your rear support to have a chance if your bow fire has little effect, which is the most common position against armoured troops. My opponent uses the cavalry in this role as they can not hold against the usual cavalry fielded by most opponents.You will also need to work out how to use/protect the elephants as they are very much "Glass Cannons " in FOG but potentually your best offensive troops if you do not maximise your heavy chariots.. If they break as has happened to my opponent they can ruin your battle line which is brittle in the first place. If you are taking against the field against a Roman Army at the same points level pray to get the best terrain possible. At our club the the other gamers who used Indians before with other rule sets have retired their Indians or are looking to morph them to Indo-Greeks etc. Finally maximise your Commanders you will need them. Good luck, the Classical Indians are a difficult army to win with but also a challange to work out how best to field an effective fighting force.

Thanks fro the advice, oddly enough I already run Bactrian and soon Kushan so my Indians are slowly morphing in from tougher armies. I have used elephants in the past and they will either do well or vapourize quickly, still I like them. Chariots are a definite troop type I will be getting, Old Glory looks like my manufacturer of choice on them. Hopefully by the summer I will be able to put together my first trial army and see how it goes for me.

deadtorius wrote:Thanks fro the advice, oddly enough I already run Bactrian and soon Kushan so my Indians are slowly morphing in from tougher armies. I have used elephants in the past and they will either do well or vapourize quickly, still I like them. Chariots are a definite troop type I will be getting, Old Glory looks like my manufacturer of choice on them. Hopefully by the summer I will be able to put together my first trial army and see how it goes for me.

Slyly replaces all your chariot axel bolts with wax ones.

A fortified camp can be very useful. I've used one together with a gully to block off/secure one flank. It might be taken on the first attempt or hold out for turns, like any other BG. But it has no cohesion tests nor can it be taken down slowly by casualties! And it can be a lure like bugs to a light for nearby enemy BG.

And it can be a lure like bugs to a light for nearby enemy BG

Who just so happened to have ignored your fortified flank in all those games we have done so far where you managed to make it a usable part of your defence. Mind you it was a sure sign of brilliance on the part of the Romans to actually make it part of their defensive line instead of hiding it out back like the rest of us do.

recharge wrote:Every time I have used a fortified camp; it fell on the first attempt

Now there were several times when the sacking unit spent the rest of the game
enjoying the spoils and were out of the game

John

Funny you should say that

I played in a wild draw today. Both armies broke on the last turn, and the BG which was most responsible for clawing a draw from what had looked for some time like certain defeat for us was one of legionaries who sacked the enemy fortified camp on first attempt, recovered from looting at the first attempt, and then just had time to barely get into position for a flank charge to break an 8 LF bow BG that had been gradually wearing down a 4 Velites BG.

Meanwhile, on the next-to-last turn, an enemy BG with an unobstructed route to our camp was 1 inch too far away.

ShrubMiK wrote:

recharge wrote:Every time I have used a fortified camp; it fell on the first attempt

Now there were several times when the sacking unit spent the rest of the game
enjoying the spoils and were out of the game

John

Funny you should say that

I played in a wild draw today. Both armies broke on the last turn, and the BG which was most responsible for clawing a draw from what had looked for some time like certain defeat for us was one of legionaries who sacked the enemy fortified camp on first attempt, recovered from looting at the first attempt, and then just had time to barely get into position for a flank charge to break an 8 LF bow BG that had been gradually wearing down a 4 Velites BG.

Meanwhile, on the next-to-last turn, an enemy BG with an unobstructed route to our camp was 1 inch too far away.

A couple of years ago, I lost when my BG ended it's move 1/8" from an undefended camp and my army broke on the enemy bound

John