Slitherine

One question, what happens to UK forces in Vichy when Paris falls and Vichy is formed? They stay where they are, moved somewhere(where)?

Hi,

UK forces in France and French territories that will change to Vichy France when Paris falls will be destroyed.
UK forces in France that does not go Vichy will be surrounded by Axis territory and out of supply except Air units. Also Any naval units in port where the controlling city will change sides will be destroyed, unless you control the city.

Axis units in French territory that will change to Vichy France will go into the build queue and be available just as if the Axis player has built the unit.
The difference will be any damage that the unit had will still have that damage. Example If a German Armor with 7 steps will go into the build queue for 3 turns.
When the armor is available for placement it will still be at 7 steps.

pk867

Thx, just tested it in hotseat game and they are indeed utterly destroyed (maybe making them go to build queue like Axis units would make more sense). Could be nasty for Allied player unaware of this, should be added to the GS manual if not already there.

I discovered about being in a port that was captured, lost part of the french navy that way in a game, did not realize it would also affect ground units that badly. So much for the BEF then I guess.

Well, just keep the BEF out of Vichy France when the French time is up, should not be much happening down there in most games anyway.

And you don't want to keep a naval unit or transport in port on the turn France surrenders because these will be destroyed, even in the part of France that will change to German control.

trulster wrote:Thx, just tested it in hotseat game and they are indeed utterly destroyed (maybe making them go to build queue like Axis units would make more sense).

The problem with this is that this would give British forces in France an easy escape. All they would have to do when Paris was close to falling would be to rush to where Vichy France is to be created and they escape. As it is now UK forces in France would have to have control of a port-city at the time of the fall of France in order to escape.

Stauffenberg wrote:And you don't want to keep a naval unit or transport in port on the turn France surrenders because these will be destroyed, even in the part of France that will change to German control.

Unless you're occupying the controlling city when Paris falls. One thing useful to know (and I've used this tactic before) is that to control a port at the time of the fall of France you must have a unit in its controlling city ON THE TURN that Paris is captured. If you do, then you control that city and its port. Any units in port at the time are ok. If however; you occupy the port but the city is vacant (even if you had previously occupied it) you lose the city, port and the unit in the port is destroyed.

In two current games as the Allied player on the turn that Norway was invaded I sent my UK strategic bomber to Bergen and a UK garrison transport to its port. Even if the Axis player got lucky on the next turn and Oslo fell, my transport is ok because I control Bergen. Usually, Oslo will hold on turn two of the invasion, which it did in both games. On that turn I flew my strategic bomber to the city in northern Norway (can't remember it's name) and unload the garrison in port to Bergen. I keep these units in place until Norway falls, which is usually on the very next turn. They I get the strategic bomber out. I now control Bergen, the city in the north and both their ports. While this isn't a big deal it forces the Axis player to have to deal it. In my past two games when his infantry corps makes contact with the garrison I evacuate him back to the UK.

A note of warning. If you finish the turn with a transport or naval unit in a country port that could fall the next turn make sure you also occupy its controlling city. This will ensure that if that country does fall that you will control the city and port and your transport / naval unit will not be destroyed.

trulster wrote:Could be nasty for Allied player unaware of this, should be added to the GS manual if not already there.

Hopefully, threads like this will help make all players more aware of this. I agree, that these details need to be captured and brought out in a more obvious manner in the user's manual. In fact, I was unaware that Allied units were destroyed if located inside of Vichy territories at the time of the creation of Vichy France.

Now that I'm giving away my game secrets here's one more tactic that I use (which I learned from Borger). On the turn before the fall of France I fly my UK strategic bomber and two fighters to the three cities in France on the western Atlantic. When France falls I fly them back to the UK and guess what? I now control these three cities. The only way the Axis player can "take" them is to move land units to occupy them. This is just one small way to frustrate your axis opponent. And let's face it, as the Allied player in 1940 you'll take all the small victories you can because the rest of the time you're just watching your axis opponent roll on.