Slitherine

I'm not asking for a leatherbound gold trimmed manual. Just something that actually has ALL the rules. I have no interest in playing this game if I don't know the inputs necessary to make an intelligent decision.

That never stopped me.

If you play the miniatures version, many but not all concepts can be found there.

Deeter

What do you feel is not coveed in enough detail?

iainmcneil wrote:What do you feel is not coveed in enough detail?

Well, I'm not sure and that's the problem. All I know is that I'm often stopped from doing things that based on the given rules I should be able to do. I have never played the tabletop game so Im starting from scratch. One example is that nowhere in the manual does it say that you can't missile fire on engaged troops but that clearly seems to be the case. Now of course that makes sense but it should be documented. There also seems to be a number of different rules concerning cavalry that I don't get. It often appears I should be able to charge something but the hexes surrounding the target are off limits even though I'm facing that direction and have the movement points. If all the rules of the tabletop game are incorporated in the pc game then it stands to reason that alot was left out if the manual was 175 pages. Of couse I'm not sure if all the rules were incorporated so I'm speculating.

We have tried very hard to build an interface where reading a thick rules manual is not required. The computer works out ALL possible charges and displays them, ALL shooting targets and ALL melee options. It does all the tests required. All the supporting information is there in the documentation and can be printed from the help folder using a simple web browser. The point is the focus has been in the in game user interface and documentation to get across what you can do and if its not listed or displayed you cannot do it.

Hopefully playing a few single player games to learn how the game works is more fun than working through a manual.

Keith

keithmartinsmith wrote: All the supporting information is there in the documentation and can be printed from the help folder using a simple web browser.
Keith

I don't see anything about missiles not firing on engaged troop or cavalry having to face the the enemy before the turn starts to be able to charge anywhere in the supporting documentation. The computer may display my options but a number of times I've set things up only to find out in the next turn that I can't do what I intended. So all the supporting information is not there. I can't help but wonder if the vagueness is due to the reluctance to give out all the rules to a game wherein the profit is made from selling those rules.

You cant be suggesting Slitherine is withholding rules from their PC game to avoid giving out the "secrets" to their miniatures game?

I do concur that there is no referance to missle units not being able to shoot at engaged enemy units, but it makes sense and now you know

The rules are somewhat broken up into little segments but all the info is there. For example charges to contact are referenced in "How to charge" : Battle groups may only charge in the direction they are facing. See Front, flanks & rear.

The manual is also accessible in game.
Also note that undrilled units will have further difficulties as they cant change facing AND move in the same turn.

Hope this helps

The first thing I look for, in any wargame be it board or PC, is a manual. So, I was a little disappointed not to find one in FoG and not to have a unified document to download and print off. I like to peruse a manual away from the pc when, for instance, I am having lunch or have a few minutes to spare during a working day. Basically I don't want to be anchored to a computer all the time. Printing off individual files is unnecessarily hard work.

Whilst the in-game help is fairly decent, it does not, as we have already seen, cover every topic. Nor does it offer much in the way of designer notes, explaining why certain features are as they are or why some have be left out. And, oddly enough, when you want to know why something hasn't happened, it isn't that helpful - you have to work that out for yourself.

You can certainly learn by playing but you cannot always assume real-world logic. My assumption originally was that missile units could shoot at any thing in range but not through 4 hexes of woods or multiple level hills. I was wrong on both counts but there is nothing in the help files to explain those things.

If you turn on the verbose information summary you get a very detailed explanation of the current combat (a little too quick during opponents turn but fine on yours when you can pause indefinately) which is better IMO than the description in the help file, which uses some different terms. Having a thorough explanation in the help file, which exactly matches the information on the summary would make for better understanding of how and why things are happening in the way that they are.

Most lacking is the help file on creating scenarios. I freely acknowledge that the mechanics of making one are wonderfully simple but there is no guidance, for example, as to the possible number of units, the implication of increasing or decreasing unit sizes or what the difference in aggression levels for leaders are. Equally, in playing a battle, what the handicap settings do.

A lot of these questions have been answered on this forum by players and the commendably ever attentive admins but wouldn't it have been easier, for all concerned, to have all of that info in a manual format from the get-go.

I read the manual to know the operations of the game. All the little details are learned while playing. FOG's operation is very easy and the in-game help is informative enough for me to formulate some tactics. Learning and discovering is more fun than just reading about it in the manual. In the real world, generals don't have written manuals that explain the calculations and the limits. They do battle by applying what they learned through their own or someone else's experience.

But this game really needs a manual. The previous post mentioned about designer's notes and that is a very important aspect that I want to know about.
It also adds to the historical feel and flavour of the game. I would also want a manual with very nice illustrations and historical notes about the time period and the history of the factions and units. I believe the table top game manuals and army expansions have these bits of info.