Slitherine

In the Early Zhou list there is a requirement that the ratio of dagger axe to "Archer" elements not exceed 2-1 and vice versa. What exactly counts as an "archer" element?

If it includes any bow armed elements on the back of Dagger axe and spear units it becomes quite challenging to write a list that uses the mixed units allowed as these elements do not subtract from the 12 element minimum of detached archers.

This issue is illustrated in the starter list (which I realise doesn't have to be entirely legal). If supporting bow elements count as "archers" this list has 12 elements of dagger-axe and 39 of "archers" ie more than 3-1. If only "detached archers" count the list has a ratio of exactly 2-1.

I've been enjoying using this army for a few games now and I'm concerned my list (which is quite similiar to the starter list but with more chariots) is actually not legal.

Martin Williams

Hah - IMO the starter army is way wrong.
You can either have mixed units with good support and little restriction, separate units and little restriction or a bit of both but a lot more restriction on choice.
All bow armed should count except chariot crew.

I think it means supporting bow and the separate MF and LF. I've also found it to be a pain in the rear trying to balance the various minima and maxima - I suspect this was done deliberately to reduce use of both mixed and separate units as bertalucci says . I'm sure now that the first list I fielded (at a club game) was illegal. Oh well, live and learn!

Intothevalley wrote:I think it means supporting bow and the separate MF and LF.

I believe you are right.

OMG, is this our first archers list cheese. Can we have an IWF interpretation that changes 3 times a year, please? (Are Early Zhou really Skythians by another name?)

timmy1 wrote:OMG, is this our first archers list cheese. Can we have an IWF interpretation that changes 3 times a year, please? (Are Early Zhou really Skythians by another name?)

Hardly. The authors good the dominate badly, but this is now where near severe.

Quickly wrote up a sample Zhou army list that should be legal:

CinC TC 35
Sub TC 35
8 MF Pr/Poor/UnDr/HW 40
8 MF UnPr/Poor/UnDr/Bow 24
3 BG 4+2 MF Pr/Avg/Dr/HW
LF UnPr/Avg/Dr/Bow 126
2 BG 4 HCh Sup/UnDr/Bow 160
8 MF Arm/Avg/Dr/OffSp 80

Zhou Ally TC 25
4 HCh Sup/UnDr/Bow 80
6 LF UnPr/Poor/UnDr/Bow 18
4+2 MF Pr/Avg/Dr/HW
LF UnPr/Avg/Dr/Bow 42

Shang Ally TC 25
4 LCh Sup/UnDr/Bow 68
6 MF Pr/Poor/UnDr/Sw 24
6 LF UnPr/Poor/UnDr/Bow 18
800 AP, 14 BG, 0 PBI

Oh well, all those who have already been crushed beneath the wheels of the Zhou can now claim it was because I was cheating (which they were already claiming, but for other reasons).

Martin