Slitherine

Any help or advice (pages in book to reread) given would be appreciated.

Trying out a first run through with Frisian versus Frisian contest. Have gotten bogged down by a light infantry melee in center.

1. Heavy impact swords versus light archers should not be a contest, should it? Yet, these archers pass the cohesion test with ease. Further, what happens after they are fragmented? Do they automatically turn tail and run?

2. Along these same lines, just two of the archer stands were melee by heavies. The rest of the archer BG was involved against enemy javelins in melee. Does the result of the contest against the heavies make the archers fragmented for the melee roll against the javelins? Or, do I resolve the light melee first?

3. I know it's not the same as an actual map or photo, but here's what I'm dealing with:

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYGGGGGGG
XXXXXXBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA
XXXXXXZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAA

Where Y = archers and G = javelins

Where X, Z and A = other warriors, impact swords
Where B = javelins

4. Are kills or hits against winning units of BGs in melee carried over? For example, if I have a BG that wins a few melees but takes 2, 3, 2 and then 4 hits, but passes the death roll each time, all of these hits mean nothing?

5. I think I grasp the idea and am attracted by the steady to fragmented scale, but to return to my archers and javelins who have been going at it for about 3 turns now, is there any provision for fatigue?

6. Is there any place where I can find write ups of rules in action? I know there is one in the book re close combat between Romans and barbarians, but it doesn't take it to a conclusion. It would be nice to have a detailed narrative of BGs in action for each phase of the game turn.


Thanks in advance.

Chris

1. Sometimes also a similar match up can request a lot of turns. Specially if you roll few dice (non skirmishers fight only as overlap or just against one base)
2. Melee are resolved at the same time. If a BG which fight two different enemy becomes fragmented, it fight both as fragmented
4. If hits didn't transform in a kill they are lost
5. No fatigue

Chris1066 wrote: 6. Is there any place where I can find write ups of rules in action? I know there is one in the book re close combat between Romans and barbarians, but it doesn't take it to a conclusion. It would be nice to have a detailed narrative of BGs in action for each phase of the game turn.

Depends on how good your German is. There is a complete game with starter armies documented here: http://www.fieldofglory.de/einfaches-fo ... spiel.html

Chris1066 wrote:Any help or advice (pages in book to reread) given would be appreciated.

I will see what I can do to help.

Trying out a first run through with Frisian versus Frisian contest. Have gotten bogged down by a light infantry melee in center.

OK, that can happen but it need both sides to want there to be such a contest. Remember that light infantry can evade and run through heavies

1. Heavy impact swords versus light archers should not be a contest, should it? Yet, these archers pass the cohesion test with ease. Further, what happens after they are fragmented? Do they automatically turn tail and run?

No it shouldn't be a contest. If protected heavy foot impact foot swordsmen charge light foot then from P90 deciding how many dice you should discover that at impact the heavy foot get 2 dice per base of frontage in contact and the light archers get 1 (light foot fighting any non fragmented troops other than light foot lose 1 dice for every 2). The POAs (see P96) give the impact foot a ++ at impact and the archers no POA so the net POA is ++ for the impact foot so -- for the archers.

That means that for every base the impact foot get 2 dice needing 3s and the archers get 1 dice needing a 5. It is highly likely that the archers will lose and probably lose by 2 hits so they will take a cohesion test with -1 for 1 hit per 3 bases, -1 for lost by 2 and -1 for beaten at impact by impact foot so they need a 10 on 2 dice to pass.

In the melee things are almost as bad. The heavy foot get 1 dice per base, the archers get 1 per base but then lose 1 dice for every 2 so essentially get half as many dice as the heavy foot. The heavies get a POA for better armour and a POA for swords for a net ++ The only difference is that in melee there is no - to the cohesion test for facing impact foot.

2. Along these same lines, just two of the archer stands were melee by heavies. The rest of the archer BG was involved against enemy javelins in melee. Does the result of the contest against the heavies make the archers fragmented for the melee roll against the javelins? Or, do I resolve the light melee first?

You resolve all melees at the same time. What matters is which BGs lose. If a BG receives more hits in impact or melee than it inflicts then it must take a cohesion test. If the archers inflict 3 hits on the Javelins, the Javelins do 2 hits on the archers and the heavy foot do another 2 hits to the archers then the Javelins have lost 3 hits to 2 and the archers have lost 4 hits to 3. Winning is irrelevant, it is losing that matters.

3. I know it's not the same as an actual map or photo, but here's what I'm dealing with:

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYGGGGGGG
XXXXXXBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA
XXXXXXZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAA

Where Y = archers and G = javelins

Where X, Z and A = other warriors, impact swords
Where B = javelins

Fair enough

4. Are kills or hits against winning units of BGs in melee carried over? For example, if I have a BG that wins a few melees but takes 2, 3, 2 and then 4 hits, but passes the death roll each time, all of these hits mean nothing?

Hits are not carried over from turn to turn but all melees are resolved simultaneously so if you take 2 hits from each of 3 enemy BGs and lose the melee you must lose a base because you have taken 6 hits in total

5. I think I grasp the idea and am attracted by the steady to fragmented scale, but to return to my archers and javelins who have been going at it for about 3 turns now, is there any provision for fatigue?

No there is no provision for fatigue. Over time BGs will lose bases so eventually even if you pass all your cohesion tests units will evaporate and auto break.

6. Is there any place where I can find write ups of rules in action? I know there is one in the book re close combat between Romans and barbarians, but it doesn't take it to a conclusion. It would be nice to have a detailed narrative of BGs in action for each phase of the game turn.

There are battle write ups but I suspect not in the level of detail you are after.

If I had time I might consider trying to write some but at present I am busy and can't

Chris1066 wrote:Any help or advice (pages in book to reread) given would be appreciated.

Trying out a first run through with Frisian versus Frisian contest. Have gotten bogged down by a light infantry melee in center.

1. Heavy impact swords versus light archers should not be a contest, should it? Yet, these archers pass the cohesion test with ease. Further, what happens after they are fragmented? Do they automatically turn tail and run?

Page 114 summarises what happens when troops are fragmented. If they drop another cohesion level they become BROKEN. Broken troops automatically turn tail and run.

2. Along these same lines, just two of the archer stands were melee by heavies. The rest of the archer BG was involved against enemy javelins in melee. Does the result of the contest against the heavies make the archers fragmented for the melee roll against the javelins? Or, do I resolve the light melee first?

It is all one melee each turn.

You roll to hit for the heavies hitting the archers.
You roll to hit for the javelins hitting the archers.
You roll to hit for the archers hitting the heavies.
You roll to hit for the archers hitting the javelins.

Then you look at the archers and add up how many hits they caused to everything in total.
Then add up how many hits they suffered from everything in total.
If they suffered more hits than they caused, then they need to test cohesion.

Look at each BG in turn as above to see if they need to test cohesion.

Then everyone who needs to test does so simultaneously (in theory) .(In practice, you will normally test each one when you find it needs a test).

Then you do death rolls (in theory. In practice you will normally do them at the same time as cohesion tests, but apply the results after the cohesion test result).

Pay close attention to the full turn sequence on page 168. This solves a lot of questions if you stick to it.

Usually lights fighting heavies will not last long. The lights will normally be on -- POA and have half the dice of the heavies, so they will normally suffer 1 hit per 3 bases and suffer 2 more hits than they caused - hence get -2 on the cohesion test, but it can occasionally take a long time to get them down to BROKEN, especially if they are fighting lights as well and doing lots of hits to them.

Thanks to all for taking the time to respond and post page numbers where appropriate.

It's a learning process, that's for sure.

Thanks again.

Chris