Slitherine

Hi folks, question about how you'd like to see good close fighting archers like janissaries depicted. Figure superior swordsman bow, or maybe heavy weapon bow*. I mean, archers that can at least hold their own in HTH.

Using the bow, or the sword/HTH weapon?

Note this does NOT mean that I am making janissaries! I'm definitely not.

Think you should given recent compy results...

I think these are best depicted as mixed figures on the base. If they are all depicted with bows slung and melee weapons out, it will be marginally harder to remember that they are shooters.

OTOH, I do like the idea of clarifying that the base has more to offer than typical MF Bowmen, so having some figures on the base in poses other than the typical shooting/loading stance would be helpful and would make the stand more interesting to look at.

Spike

spikemesq wrote:I think these are best depicted as mixed figures on the base. If they are all depicted with bows slung and melee weapons out, it will be marginally harder to remember that they are shooters.

OTOH, I do like the idea of clarifying that the base has more to offer than typical MF Bowmen, so having some figures on the base in poses other than the typical shooting/loading stance would be helpful and would make the stand more interesting to look at.

Spike

I agree that making archers in both types of pose is the right answer even though not a poll choice. I might choose to instead mount the figures for a BG as a front rank using their melee weapon and the read rank shooting instead of mixing figures on a base, but either way it would be best to have both types of pose available.

Chris

p.s. Since "both" wasn't a choice in the poll, I voted for HTH since it is almost guaranteed that some other manufacturer will make a pose using bow.

I'd definitely vote for "Both".

A mix is nice.

Thanks guys -- I can't seem to edit the poll to add both, but if you'd like that, please say so in the thread rather than voting.

Won't a unit with mixed fighters and shooters look odd?

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Thanks guys -- I can't seem to edit the poll to add both, but if you'd like that, please say so in the thread rather than voting.

Won't a unit with mixed fighters and shooters look odd?

That is why I'd probably base them as a front rank attacking and a rear rank with bow "support shooting".

Chris

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Thanks guys -- I can't seem to edit the poll to add both, but if you'd like that, please say so in the thread rather than voting.

Won't a unit with mixed fighters and shooters look odd?

I already voted so it is too late to abstain. Not much for abstinence anyway, as I find it highly overrated.

I have done mixed units before, with Scythians and with Persian archers. What I did was have rear ranks - or with LF guys hanging back towards the rear - engaged in archery, while the guys in front were mixed, with some shooting but others drawing, brandishing or holding their melee weapons at the ready. I used a preponderance of minis with bows, and about 1:4 - 1:3 with melee weapons.

The effect works well. The unit looks as if a recent volley has been or is being released, but that the unit is threatened with imminent melee and individual troops are preparing for the clash.

With more disciplined or drilled troops I would be more inclined to approach a 50/50 mix. A block of English longbowmen for instance, with about half shown ready to use their mauls and perhaps the odd Welsh knifeman in the ranks would look great.

I believe in the concept of presenting a unit as a mini-diorama which doubles as a playing piece.

Skullzgrinda wrote:I believe in the concept of presenting a unit as a mini-diorama which doubles as a playing piece.

If you could get the figures it would be great. So a mix is best. IMHO about 2:1 archers to HTH wpn. My highlanders are a massive mix. But then they are Bw* and IF and Sw. But some of the hairier ones have big choppers.

I would have to go for hand to hand, simply because every other archer figure i have seen is shooting (apart from a very few in 28mm)
just adds a new option to use, that is assuming you won't make a mix of both?

Ben

Phil

Too much information 'But some of the hairier ones have big choppers.'

I think its a lochaber axe, but not sure.

no not both. a few here and there are fine but they'd look silly with a BG with half the guys shooting and the other half loking like they were in mellee.

If Bow* with HW then depict them with HW. The bow is there but supplementary to the HW.
If Bow sword they are primarily going to be purchased for thier bow capability so stick with that.
Noone would think of wanting all of thier english longbowmen looking like they are in the grand mellee.


I am painting hoplites hnow and it is a bit similar. all of the normal chaps have thier spears out while there are one or two 'officers' with a shord sword. This mix of 1/8 looks good
anthony

i think it must depend to the kind of troop

drilled or not and how they act


janissaries for example were bow equipped but like to go to contact
i will appreciate to be able to represent them with bow for some of them
and sword/spear for other all in movement attitude

marco wrote:i think it must depend to the kind of troop

drilled or not and how they act


janissaries for example were bow equipped but like to go to contact
i will appreciate to be able to represent them with bow for some of them
and sword/spear for other all in movement attitude

all of the above cant really be an answer here for me because I can only devote so much money to each troop type. So if I can afford three poses, it's either three shooters, three fighters, or a mix totalling three. Hence my question!

It's looking like shooting is the winning answer -- thanks guys!!!

I have a similar situation with my Bactrians. My Bactrian light horse have bows and spears and my unit of Skytians have bow and swords. I am using the old Rafm multi-part ancients so using the skythian body, so will mount 1 LH with bow and 1 LH with spear on the same base. Helps me keep track of who is who and shows my opponent what to expect if he wants to melee them.
I would go mixed perhaps 2 bow 1 melee weapon per base.

They're shooters first - so a mix of shooting poses would be good.

I have just received photos of the greens of the chinantec spearmen and they are lovely! Four poses, and the huge spear studded with flint/obsidian blades is a separate piece that slides right in. We had to skimp a bit on the length over fears that it would not cast correctly, but it's still super long!

Now on to the nobles, the reason I posted this poll in the first place. I like these guys, they are like irregular janissaries, but depicting them shooting the bow is causing a real dilemma. As they also had a macana (and are thus swordsmen) I wonder -- where to put the macana???

They did not use a strap to hold the weapon on. Notice Ian Heath usually depicted double-armed men holding the macana with the bow slung! Some Mexican peoples carried the macana tucked in a loop behind the shield, and the shield was strapped on the left forearm, but this might look awkward on a shooting man, not to mention might be devilish hard to mould and cast.

Pretty please can't I depict them attacking with macana???

I was one of the 19%, so sure.

I would suggest making the slung bow very prominent though.