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Broken Intercept?
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:42 pm
by petedalby
In this example, the cavalry BG at the bottom of the picture is charging straight ahead.
It is within 4MU of an enemy BG of Knights. The intercept is not a flank charge so cannot contact the cavalry. Since interceptors cannot wheel, how can these Knights contact the cavalry?
I don't think they can as per the rules? But is this right?
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:50 pm
by paulcummins
you know what - looking again at p 62 - it cant intercept - which is silly
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:02 pm
by Robert241167
Mind you the cavalry will get a shock in the flank on your turn!
Rob
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:22 pm
by rogerg
However, given that it was your move Pete, why did you move them to that position? Granted that it is a rule anomaly, but it is easy to avoid.
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:53 pm
by hammy
It is an anomaly but not one I expect to see anything done about. The simplest fix is to put the itnerceptors in a better place.
There are a number of other 'tricks' than can be used to reduce potential interceptors options but all can be dealt with quite easily with a tiny amount of thought on the part of the player using the intercepting BG.
Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:59 pm
by gozerius
Sometimes NOT intercepting is prefered to intercepting.
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:15 am
by petedalby
However, given that it was your move Pete, why did you move them to that position?
Hopefully I know not to - I was just illustrating the point. The authors have asked for things which are anomalous?
A slight angle on the Knights and of course they can intercept. But perpendicualr they can't.
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:25 am
by lawrenceg
rogerg wrote:However, given that it was your move Pete, why did you move them to that position? Granted that it is a rule anomaly, but it is easy to avoid.
Perhaps they arrived there as a result of pursuing an autobroken enemy.
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:40 pm
by timmy1
Hammy wrote
"There are a number of other 'tricks' than can be used to reduce potential interceptors options but all can be dealt with quite easily with a tiny amount of thought on the part of the player using the intercepting BG."
So now we have to think while playing the game. God this is going to get tough...
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:07 pm
by donm
Guys,
If the knights can fit in the gap between the cavalry and the infantry and so allow the charging cavalry to contact them it the flank.
Then according to page 63 5th bullet point after first '-'
'Cross the path of the charging enemy battle group. Interceptors move before chargers. If the would result in the enemy chargers contacting its flank, the intercepting batlle
group can and MUST wheel towards them to avoid this, its total move distance including the wheel not exceeding 4MUs if mounted.'
So why can't they wheel ?
Don
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:13 pm
by timmy1
Don
Agree if the knights fit. I think Pete is raising the specific exception of where they don't. I may be making an incorrect assumption.
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:03 pm
by hammy
In this situation the knights will hit the flank of the cavalry but not as a legitimate flank charge. This particular situation is not covered by the interception rules in any way other than to dissallow such an interception.
Granted it is an obscure one and to be honest while it is theoretically possible I can't think of any real games where it has cropped up.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:51 am
by donm
Hammy,
I think you may have misunderstood, it is the charging cavalry who will hit the intercepting knights in the flank, if the knights intercept move is straight ahead.
The part of the rules I quoted, says that in these cases, the intercepting knight 'can AND MUST' wheel.
So in this case why can't the knights wheel into the path of the charging cavalry?
Thanks
Don
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:18 am
by marioslaz
donm wrote:Hammy,
I think you may have misunderstood, it is the charging cavalry who will hit the intercepting knights in the flank, if the knights intercept move is straight ahead.
The part of the rules I quoted, says that in these cases, the intercepting knight 'can AND MUST' wheel.
IMO you are right and knights can intercept. They will make a little wheel to their right so the cavalry will hit the front right corner of the knights, instead of their flank.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:44 am
by hammy
marioslaz wrote:donm wrote:Hammy,
I think you may have misunderstood, it is the charging cavalry who will hit the intercepting knights in the flank, if the knights intercept move is straight ahead.
The part of the rules I quoted, says that in these cases, the intercepting knight 'can AND MUST' wheel.
IMO you are right and knights can intercept. They will make a little wheel to their right so the cavalry will hit the front right corner of the knights, instead of their flank.
Look carefully at the picture.
The right hand side of the knight BG is not infront of the cavalry. If the knights move directly forwards (which intercepts require) then they will hit the flank of the cavalry but not be a legal flank charge so the intercept cannot get into the path of the charge or hit the flank so it can't happen.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:13 pm
by Polkovnik
hammy wrote:It is an anomaly but not one I expect to see anything done about. The simplest fix is to put the itnerceptors in a better place.
If they are undrilled they may not have had a choice about their position.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:02 pm
by spikemesq
The knights can and must wheel as part of their intercept move. Otherwise they cannot intercept because they would expose themselves to a flank charge. What is the problem?
Spike
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:21 pm
by madcam2us
bottom most knight base would hit friendly base before hitting the chargers path.
No wheel to avoid being hit in the flank can be made due to the Knights not able to reach the path of the charging BG due to friendlies...
If the intercepetion could drop bases (since its a charge) to avoid friends, then this would be permitted...
Alas, only cheeky colonials will ever have this come up in games and wonder a-loud why.......
Madcam.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:26 pm
by hammy
spikemesq wrote:The knights can and must wheel as part of their intercept move. Otherwise they cannot intercept because they would expose themselves to a flank charge. What is the problem?
Spike
Err the problem is that the knights do not have a whole base behind the flank of the cavalry and that the cavalry are partly infront of the knights:
Knight base K2 will hit the side of the cavalry if it charges but it will not be a legal flank charge. As the knights are exactly lined up at 90 degrees to the cavalry they also won't put any part of their BG in the path of the charge so cannot intercept.
If the situation was thus:
Then the knights would be able to intercept and wheel to avoid being hit in the flank.
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:05 pm
by petedalby
I set it up as Hammy describes just to make the point.
Don is correct, had there been room, the Knights could've wheeled to avoid their own intercept being taken in the flank. But there isn't room. Hence the post.
Personally I don't think it is a major problem - I've never seen it happen - but if someone is collecting examples for future consideration it might be worth noting.
The rules work well in most situations as they stand.