Slitherine

Do enemy evade from a flank march that "arrives" (as in rolls the 9-10 needed) but all the units in it then fail to arrive due to troops lagging behind (can't remember the exact wording) ?

yes

How can the enemy troops evade from a BG that does not arrive on table? What am I missing here?

Marc

They do arrive on the table. Just not for very long that's all.

If you bother to read Appendix 4 it is all quite clearly explained in there i.e. RTFM.

dave_r wrote:They do arrive on the table. Just not for very long that's all.

If you bother to read Appendix 4 it is all quite clearly explained in there i.e. RTFM.

There you go, then. I have only ever had one enemy FM arrive in a FoG game so far, and they didn't straggle. So I ahve never really had the necessity to go deep into it.

Marc

I've only ever tried one.

The superior lancers straggled, however the poor LF javelinmen did arrive ( but only after we realised the FC added +1!).

The FC doesn't add one to the straggling roll. He only adds one to the dice required to actually get the Flank March to turn up.

i.e. you need a 9 to turn up rather than a 10 (assuming no medium or heavy foot involved)

I hope that you remembered that your superior troops get quality re-rolls for the straggling test?

From the above I strongly advise that you read Appendix 4 regarding Flank Marches....

dave_r wrote:The FC doesn't add one to the straggling roll. He only adds one to the dice required to actually get the Flank March to turn up.

i.e. you need a 9 to turn up rather than a 10 (assuming no medium or heavy foot involved)

I hope that you remembered that your superior troops get quality re-rolls for the straggling test?

From the above I strongly advise that you read Appendix 4 regarding Flank Marches....

OK, I missed the +1 for lights, not generals for straggling.

And yes, I re-rolled for the superiors.

And what happen if the flank march didn't arrive before the time limit ? Did the BG count as Broken or as straggling?

Nope, doesn't count as anything.

Nope, doesn't count as anything.

just little strange, no?

The loss of the general and troops is problematic enough.

dave_r wrote:The loss of the general and troops is problematic enough.

I'm supprised that its not tried more ofton allways do one myself unless fighting a LH army. Sometimes they come on sometimes not but it can have a great effect on the battle if and when they come on.

I apologize for not knowing how to import the part of this thread I wish to address in this message. However, the original question was, "Do BGs within 6MU of the flank march's point of arrival evade if all of the flank marching troops straggle?" The answer was "They do arrive on the table, just not for very long. ...read appendix 4." It appears to me appendix 4 says the first test can result in "success-see below". This is not arrival per se, which must be determined on the Straggling table. This table says "Straggling battle groups will not arrive..." All actions taken by enemy BG's are based on being within 6MU of the point of arrival. It appears to me that no action need be taken by the enemy if the entire flank marching command straggles.

Terry G.

TERRYFROMSPOKANE wrote:I apologize for not knowing how to import the part of this thread I wish to address in this message. However, the original question was, "Do BGs within 6MU of the flank march's point of arrival evade if all of the flank marching troops straggle?" The answer was "They do arrive on the table, just not for very long. ...read appendix 4." It appears to me appendix 4 says the first test can result in "success-see below". This is not arrival per se, which must be determined on the Straggling table. This table says "Straggling battle groups will not arrive..." All actions taken by enemy BG's are based on being within 6MU of the point of arrival. It appears to me that no action need be taken by the enemy if the entire flank marching command straggles.

Terry G.

I agree - from a logical perspective (no book on hand)

Anthony

Apparently asking people to read Appendix 4 hasn't worked so I will now have to type out the relevant bit....

- The outflanking battle groups and commander arrive in any legal formation in the manoeuvre phase of the controlling player's next turn, anywhere on that flanks table edge. All battle groups must be in command range of their commander at the end of their first move on to the table.

- The player rolls now for each battle group to see if any are straggling

That is to say, that the BG's are moved onto the table (and any resultant flee moves carried out) and THEN you roll for straggling.

david53 wrote: I'm supprised that its not tried more ofton allways do one myself unless fighting a LH army. Sometimes they come on sometimes not but it can have a great effect on the battle if and when they come on.

Because without an FC it's a complete waste of valuable troops. Even then, our experience is they come on too early or not at all.

Steve P

stenic wrote:

david53 wrote: I'm supprised that its not tried more ofton allways do one myself unless fighting a LH army. Sometimes they come on sometimes not but it can have a great effect on the battle if and when they come on.

Because without an FC it's a complete waste of valuable troops. Even then, our experience is they come on too early or not at all.

Steve P

All depends on what you send of course you don't send troops you need on table what you do is send troops out that if they don't come on arn't a great loss, ie LH or Unprotected Cav the cav your oppenont can't ignore cause they can drop you a level.

I have used it many many times only with a TC all it takes is a bit of forward planning.

dave_r wrote:Apparently asking people to read Appendix 4 hasn't worked so I will now have to type out the relevant bit....

- The outflanking battle groups and commander arrive in any legal formation in the manoeuvre phase of the controlling player's next turn, anywhere on that flanks table edge. All battle groups must be in command range of their commander at the end of their first move on to the table.

- The player rolls now for each battle group to see if any are straggling

That is to say, that the BG's are moved onto the table (and any resultant flee moves carried out) and THEN you roll for straggling.

I can see where the appendix can be interpreted to say that the BGs are moved before rolling for straggling because there is an initial mention that the BGs arrive in the owning player's next turn maneuver phase and must end their move within command range of the general. This is followed by the rule for straggling which is then followed later by the more detailed description of how to move the flank marchers. Is this really an implied sequence of play? (Unfortunately the full turn sequence doesn't include straggling rolls.) Given that stragglers are described as not arriving in time for the battle, it seems a bit odd that they actually would arrive soon enough to force enemy to evade from them. Besides, I would think in reality that a general making a flank march would notice who was missing before determining how to form his troops before moving into close proximity with the enemy, e.g. on to the table.

Chris

Attrition points do not count until they fail the straggling roll though.

This came up pre-Britcon in the practice games. And enemy did flee from straggling flank marchers.

Apparently there are historical instances of troops fleeing from suspected flank marches that never arrived, or indeed never existed. And the general comes on whatever.