Slitherine

Delighted to receive my new Empire of the Dragon book, I seek input on the following Early Tang list:

4 Troop Commanders

4 x Cv/Arm/Sup/Drill/Bw/Sw
4 x Cv/Arm/Sup/Drill/Bw/Sw
4 x Cv/Arm/Sup/Drill/Bw/Sw
4 x Cv/Arm/Sup/Drill/Bw/Sw
4 x LH/Unpr/Av/Drill/Bw
4 x LH/Unpr/Av/Drill/Bw
4 x LH/Unpr/Av/UnDr/Bw/Sw
4 x LH/Unpr/Av/UnDr/Bw/Sw
6 x LF/Unpr/Av/Drill/Bw
3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/LSp/Sw + 3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/Bw/Sw
3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/LSp/Sw + 3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/Bw/Sw
3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/LSp/Sw + 3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/Bw/Sw
3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/LSp/Sw + 3 x MF/Prot/Av/Drill/Bw/Sw

798 points and 13 BGs total.

I toyed with changing some of the mixed infantry to bring in some anti-cavalry squads. What do people think of Average HW in 4s? One BG of 8 seems too much, but Average infantry in 4s seems too brittle.

Spike

Tastes like fresh-squeezed

Lucky you getting the book, no sign of it in Va yet.

Amazon pre-order FTW.

Spike

Yup, that's what we get for being loyal to our local gaming store lol

Hey, it only took our local establishment 6 weeks to get OoF. Which sounds like a good jargon word for it.
Spelled "OOF!"

spikemesq wrote:Delighted to receive my new Empire of the Dragon book, I seek input on the following Early Tang list:

I toyed with changing some of the mixed infantry to bring in some anti-cavalry squads. What do people think of Average HW in 4s? One BG of 8 seems too much, but Average infantry in 4s seems too brittle.

Spike

I'm not sure how to use the 'anti-cavalry' squads. I think that they're anything but anti-cavalry, but may be useful in taking on enemy heavy foot, in which case 4s are probably too small for a heavy foot slogging match. The 8 you can get in the Early Tang are also too few in this role, perhaps the 16 heavy foot available in the Song list's Yue Fei option would be better.

Intothevalley wrote:I'm not sure how to use the 'anti-cavalry' squads. I think that they're anything but anti-cavalry, but may be useful in taking on enemy heavy foot, in which case 4s are probably too small for a heavy foot slogging match. The 8 you can get in the Early Tang are also too few in this role, perhaps the 16 heavy foot available in the Song list's Yue Fei option would be better.

They are better than the other Chinese foot in melee against mounted.

philqw78 wrote:

Intothevalley wrote:I'm not sure how to use the 'anti-cavalry' squads. I think that they're anything but anti-cavalry, but may be useful in taking on enemy heavy foot, in which case 4s are probably too small for a heavy foot slogging match. The 8 you can get in the Early Tang are also too few in this role, perhaps the 16 heavy foot available in the Song list's Yue Fei option would be better.

They are better than the other Chinese foot in melee against mounted.

You're right, they're better, but still not good IMO, thus I think the 'anti-cavalry' title is accurate from a historical point of view, but a little misleading from a gaming one!

Spike (the nasty one):

Having spent the past two days perusing my shiny new EotD, I find that I too like the Astronaut's Breakfast list. I think my list would mix in a BG or two of lancers, though. Something to give a bit of punch at the moment of decision.

Marc

I find myself able to field troops as either Northern Dynasty or Tang. The Tang foot (the mixed Fubing) are puzzling. What do you do with them? What are they actually going to beat? They look like roadkill against any sort of decent heavy foot, armored cavalry (esp lancers) will pick their teeth with them, but as bad terrain troops they are decidedly vanilla. MF impact or O.Sp. foot will be a challenge. It's nice that they're drilled, so if your opponent is an idiot you might be able to nail a flank, but idiots are in short supply.

What are they good for, other than driving off enemy lights and perhaps holding terrain?

Dlauerman wrote:I find myself able to field troops as either Northern Dynasty or Tang. The Tang foot (the mixed Fubing) are puzzling. What do you do with them? What are they actually going to beat? They look like roadkill against any sort of decent heavy foot, armored cavalry (esp lancers) will pick their teeth with them, but as bad terrain troops they are decidedly vanilla. MF impact or O.Sp. foot will be a challenge. It's nice that they're drilled, so if your opponent is an idiot you might be able to nail a flank, but idiots are in short supply.

What are they good for, other than driving off enemy lights and perhaps holding terrain?

Don't underestimate that MF w/2nd rank bow to be able to hurt mounted. You really need to commit 2 Mounted BGs two one foot to guarantee a break through.

babyshark wrote:Spike (the nasty one):

Having spent the past two days perusing my shiny new EotD, I find that I too like the Astronaut's Breakfast list. I think my list would mix in a BG or two of lancers, though. Something to give a bit of punch at the moment of decision.

Marc

I think that the lancer option fades when you switch from Sui to Tang. Don't you only get some Cataphracts, unless you mean the 2 stand BG of Elites under Li Shi Min (and the mandatory IC). Love Li Shi Min, but not so high on those options.

Spike

As nasty as I wanna be.

I would change the infantrty form 4x6BGs to 3x8BGs. I have found 8s are much more resilient to shooting...

I would also consider shuffling a bit to get IC+2xTC instead of 4xTC (you can get the 8AP you need by dropping swords from all your LH, assuming you can do that I still haven't gotten my book yet...sigh).

spikemesq wrote:

babyshark wrote:Spike (the nasty one):

Having spent the past two days perusing my shiny new EotD, I find that I too like the Astronaut's Breakfast list. I think my list would mix in a BG or two of lancers, though. Something to give a bit of punch at the moment of decision.

Marc

I think that the lancer option fades when you switch from Sui to Tang. Don't you only get some Cataphracts, unless you mean the 2 stand BG of Elites under Li Shi Min (and the mandatory IC). Love Li Shi Min, but not so high on those options.

Spike

As nasty as I wanna be.

Spike (Ms. Jackson, if you're nasty):

I spent some time fiddling with Li Shimin and got a list with a BG of cats and the 2 of elite lancers that I almost like. But it isn't quite there, and I am moving on for now. The Liao and Jin lists look interesting.

Marc