Slitherine

If you are so inclined, please review and comment. This list is shot from the hip with no practical experience of FoG but a modest amount of WRG 7th experience running Scythians plus a lot of reading of old posts on this site and the madaxeman site. This is a tournament list for a Wolves of the Sea themed tournament. Early Alans are selected because the LH are finished and based, and there is an outside chance the lancers can be completed in time for the dance. Here it is:

1xIC; 1xFC; 2xTC @ 200 pts
5 BGs of 4 Lancers, Armoured, Sw, superior @ 320 pts
7 BGs of 4 LH, Bw, Sw, average @ 280 pts = 800 points maximum.

These units are small, but I felt that individual unit fragility was more than offset by the increased number of units, opportunities for maneuver, and number of threats that could be made along the enemy line. As this is my first foray into FoG, I felt that maneuver would be my weak point, and that the smaller units would be handier to use and to protect. The infantry seemed too few and too vulnerable and are thus off the list.

If it is adviseable to beef up some of the units, I am inclined towards 4 BGS of 6 LH, 1 BG of 4LH. To do this with the Lancers, 2 BGs of 6 and 2 BGs of 4, seems to greatly reduce the maneuver potential and the potential points of attack.

This is a brilliant list.

For mounted most people take 4's because of the manouverability. A 6 of LH is much easier to trap, for little benefit. The extra flexibility of 4's for your cavalry is also much better than 6's, squeezing it through gaps and down flanks.

You have an IC which means your lancers will pass most manouver tests, but don't bank on it stopping you charging, because your Superiorness doesn't count.

You have an FC so can flank march with an extremely good chance of success.

You need to then concentrate on stripping as much terrain as possible from the table. Concentrate your lancers down one of the flanks, with a couple of LH if he has LH and LF, so that you can catch him with your LH as he will not dare stand against your lancers. Pick on little bits of his army with the rest of your LH to shoot it down and maybe get a charge against fragged troops. Don't risk too much doing this though as 12 is still a small army, so skirmish when needed.

Don't be afraid to give ground in places as due to your speed you can make it back up very quickly.

Don't think you need 2 TC's, but what else can you spend the 35pts on???

I like it.

I haven't checked the Alan list, but if you have the option of poor light foot archers or slingers, it might be worthwhile sacrificing or downgrading a BG of lancers to get some more missile fire and increased BG count. On the other hand, f this is what you have for figures, it should work well enough. You'll just need to be a bit careful with units due to your relatively low number of BGs. The lancers can't skirmish to get out of trouble so you need to be careful not to commit them until there is a vulnerable spot for them to overwhelm.

Chris

It would be better to drop a couple of Bg of LH, get one LF and an extra lancer IMO

Quality has a quantity of its own, as has been said in the forum by cleverer people than me.

The two winning armies at Britcon were 12 BG IIRC

You can probably afford to drop a TC if you have something useful you can do/get for 35AP.

ethan wrote:You can probably afford to drop a TC if you have something useful you can do/get for 35AP.

Thats it. Drop a TC and change a LH to a lancer

For the 35 pts maybe try a fortified camp, and raise one of the lh to cv ?

IT LOOKS LIKE AN ASYMETRIC STARTEGY

WOULD U USE THE LH TO HELP THE LF ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OR TO HELP THE CAV ON THE OFFENSIVE SIDE ?

domblas wrote:IT LOOKS LIKE AN ASYMETRIC STARTEGY

WOULD U USE THE LH TO HELP THE LF ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OR TO HELP THE CAV ON THE OFFENSIVE SIDE ?

Any reason for SHOUTING?

One question for the list is whether you would prefer to emphasize shooting and skirmishing against an opponent and then exploiting a weak spot or to just skirmis/ screen part of an opponents army while attempting to quickly crush the remainder with massed lancers. If you are planning to play the Alans based on having used Scythians in other rules, it might make more sense to go for the first approach and therefore emphasize light troops (LH and LF) compared to the number of lancers. If you want the second approach, then reverse that emphasis.

Of course it sounds like your available mix of figures for the tournament may make your choices limited at any rate.

Chris

batesmotel wrote:One question for the list is whether you would prefer to emphasize shooting and skirmishing against an opponent and then exploiting a weak spot or to just skirmis/ screen part of an opponents army while attempting to quickly crush the remainder with massed lancers. If you are planning to play the Alans based on having used Scythians in other rules, it might make more sense to go for the first approach and therefore emphasize light troops (LH and LF) compared to the number of lancers. If you want the second approach, then reverse that emphasis.

Of course it sounds like your available mix of figures for the tournament may make your choices limited at any rate.

Chris

I am in fact hiding behind the LH - part of the reason I have 7 BGs of them. Skirmishing seems to be effective in FoG, so I will be trying that out, and keeping the lancers tucked back until the LH have softened or turned a target, then punching out with the lancers. Finishing enough stands of lancers is a limitation, but primarily this marks an evolution from a skirmisher towards a more shock oriented army. This is more than double the number of shock stands I had with the Scyths, but clearly the tactical notions derive from a skirmishing army.

The foot are left out of it as poor to mediocre foot were always my bane in the past - points sunk into a laggard and easily killed appendage to the main force, with never enough of the horse archers.

I started cleaning a modest heap of Sarmation lancers today - spent several hours at it, the most time I have spent on minis for myself in several years. It was a very refreshing and relaxing exercise!

domblas wrote:IT LOOKS LIKE AN ASYMETRIC STARTEGY

WOULD U USE THE LH TO HELP THE LF ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OR TO HELP THE CAV ON THE OFFENSIVE SIDE ?

The LH is slightly more dominant as they will be a screening force. The CYA function of the LH appeals due to the CinC's cluelessness.

The army, as with the list, is dirt simple. Lancer cav, bow/sw cav, bow/sw LH, and LF archers. That is it.

philqw78 wrote:

ethan wrote:You can probably afford to drop a TC if you have something useful you can do/get for 35AP.

Thats it. Drop a TC and change a LH to a lancer

I will trim the command and LH and beef up the shock when I have more confidence and competence with FoG

For this initial soiree, I am going to take advantage of troops who can take care of themselves, or at least evade out of the bad positions they are put in!

Scrumpy wrote:For the 35 pts maybe try a fortified camp, and raise one of the lh to cv ?

Are fortified camps that useful? I am wending my way throught he rules but have not seen the distinction between the fortified and open camps yet.

philqw78 wrote:...You need to then concentrate on stripping as much terrain as possible from the table. Concentrate your lancers down one of the flanks, with a couple of LH if he has LH and LF, so that you can catch him with your LH as he will not dare stand against your lancers. Pick on little bits of his army with the rest of your LH to shoot it down and maybe get a charge against fragged troops. Don't risk too much doing this though as 12 is still a small army, so skirmish when needed.

Don't be afraid to give ground in places as due to your speed you can make it back up very quickly. ...

Thanks for this! The original concept was to spread the lancers along the whole line, but that would amount to pawn grabbing at best, defeat in detail at worst. Massing on one flank to really dominate it makes sense. I will try it.

nikgaukroger wrote:

domblas wrote:IT LOOKS LIKE AN ASYMETRIC STARTEGY

WOULD U USE THE LH TO HELP THE LF ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OR TO HELP THE CAV ON THE OFFENSIVE SIDE ?

Any reason for SHOUTING?

oops no reason just lazyness
sorry

Are fortified camps that useful? I am wending my way throught he rules but have not seen the distinction between the fortified and open camps yet.

My experience from using a fortified camp wiith my Late Republican Romans is that it has been a waste of points, unfortunately it is compulsory for the army. I would much rather spend the 24 points on another BG of troops.

There have probably been occasions when people have been deterred from attempting to sack the camp because it is fortified, however, it has never been critical in any of my games.

The Alans are a fast moving army of manouvre. Your enemies camp is far more vulnerable than yours. Fortified camps are only useful for footslogger armies which can be run around by pesky Light Horse. I use them in my Principate/Late Republican Romans as they are compulsory. Though I ghave not used the army yet I have one in my Medieval French list (25 mm) as this is an army with no manouvrable troops and is very small so I think it is worthwhile). Otherwise I never bother. Admittedly I have not played that many games and have seen a camp plundered once (Medieval Scandinavians lost it to a Medieval Spanish army).

I would be inclined to reduce the Lancer count, maybe to 3 BGs of 4 with a couple of units of Light Foot to screen them from shooting and up the Light Horse (but keeps in BGs of 4). Their are a lot of troops that make life horrible for Lancers (anything with a long pointy stick for example) and these are really bad at getting out of the way - no evade and undrilled. Your battle plan of skirmish and counter punch is sound but I think 5 BGs of Lancers will be too unwieldy and will get pulled apart by a real skirmisher army.

Consider having some of your Horse Archers as Bow/Sword Cavalry. They can evade and still charge the right troops. Very good against pure light horse armies, just be careful about tests from shooting. A friend of mine uses Mongols and these are the troops I have problems with (admittedly I have always been using foot heavy armies in 15 mm - Romans or Sertorian Spanish).

Everyone says Light Horse and Shooty Cavalry is the way to go but I will stick to my guns. Well Impact Foot, Artillery seem to be problematic under these rules, though I have a cunning wheeze which might help (redoubts 15 MU in and deploy the artillery last - needs Field Fortifications of course so ideal for Romans and won't work for the French)

The Italian Ostrogothic list that won at Britcon seemed to find a fortified camp useful. Might be worth seeing how he used it.

The Italian Ostrogothic list that won at Britcon seemed to find a fortified camp useful. Might be worth seeing how he used it.

The Italian Ostrogothic was a cr*p army, with a cr*p plan that somehow managed to win Britcon because everybody was too busy laughing at how cr*p the plan was. It went like this.

- The camp was placed more than 6" from the base edge in the middle of the table.
- 75% of the army's BG's must be placed on one side of the camp
- Compulsory flank march
- Three Generals (one on flank march)

Incidentally, I massacred it 23-2 the previous Monday....