Slitherine

There is a "save core" function line within the campaign script file, which means they DO have a plan for future contents continued from this one.

It is good news! My understanding, though, is there is a fair bit of coding for stuff that never gets used. I'll believe it when I either see it or hear it from Slitherine .

BarbarianHunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 3:32 pm It is good news! My understanding, though, is there is a fair bit of coding for stuff that never gets used. I'll believe it when I either see it or hear it from Slitherine .

After finished checking the lua file for the last scenario, I'm quite confident to say that those "Key Characters" are going to make their apparence in the future. Not going to spoil anything directly, but I'm sure we all know that a lot of Poles continued their fight after Poland has fallen...

Thats funny, a new DLC comes out and you check the game files first

I will wait until someone has finished it. If its a stand alone dlc I will sit this one out again.

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:48 pm Thats funny, a new DLC comes out and you check the game files first

I will wait until someone has finished it. If its a stand alone dlc I will sit this one out again.

pretty sure that the descission if this gets continued is in management-limbo somewhere and depends on the sale numbers. But at least the core gets saved and it is possible to do so.

sers,
Thomas

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:48 pm I will wait until someone has finished it.

Im on it, first mission looks promising and feels nice to play, but one of my cats is real sick and needs a lot of attention, help and love. So im not fast this time.

Oh and no Panzer General and Master of Blitzkrieg trait available, i guess this is a feature fpr this campaign ?

Bee1976 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:15 pm Oh and no Panzer General and Master of Blitzkrieg trait available, i guess this is a feature fpr this campaign ?

I checked and are still there for other campaigns.
They don't think much of Polish tanks, which makes sense.

Grondel wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:13 pm pretty sure that the descission if this gets continued is in management-limbo somewhere and depends on the sale numbers. But at least the core gets saved and it is possible to do so.

sers,
Thomas

This. Exact decisions will always depend on sales, interest and overall reception, especially for a potentially first DLC in a series, but the devs would at least make the basic preparations for such an eventuality, which makes sense. I'm rooting for a success and continuation, but we shall see.

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:48 pm Thats funny, a new DLC comes out and you check the game files first

I will wait until someone has finished it. If its a stand alone dlc I will sit this one out again.

I need to prepare the guide about cache and rewards, and check if all the scripts are working, since we didn't have a closed player test this time. Used to do that during the test phase and just enjoy the campaign after it's released.

I'm half into the campaign now, feels good so far if we ignore how many restarts and loads have I got for losing critical units or forgetting to do the key character's request before completing the main objectives...it is indeed a hard one, considering how fast the Polish army collapsed in history before the fierce onslaught.

VirgilInTheSKY wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 7:23 am

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:48 pm Thats funny, a new DLC comes out and you check the game files first

I will wait until someone has finished it. If its a stand alone dlc I will sit this one out again.

I need to prepare the guide about cache and rewards, and check if all the scripts are working, since we didn't have a closed player test this time. Used to do that during the test phase and just enjoy the campaign after it's released.

I'm half into the campaign now, feels good so far if we ignore how many restarts and loads have I got for losing critical units or forgetting to do the key character's request before completing the main objectives...it is indeed a hard one, considering how fast the Polish army collapsed in history before the fierce onslaught.

Reminiscent of... "Custer's Last Stand" at the "Battle of the Little Big-Horn!".


Three survivors of the Battle of Little Big Horn

VirgilInTheSKY wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 3:59 pm

BarbarianHunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 3:32 pm It is good news! My understanding, though, is there is a fair bit of coding for stuff that never gets used. I'll believe it when I either see it or hear it from Slitherine .

After finished checking the lua file for the last scenario, I'm quite confident to say that those "Key Characters" are going to make their apparence in the future. Not going to spoil anything directly, but I'm sure we all know that a lot of Poles continued their fight after Poland has fallen...

could be a pain to implement though, because these guys can die at any point in the fall of Poland.

They'd have to be unique heroes and not story characters because writing them in to any story would be a pain with all the potential players that miss them IMO.

RVallant wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:31 am

VirgilInTheSKY wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 3:59 pm

BarbarianHunter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 3:32 pm It is good news! My understanding, though, is there is a fair bit of coding for stuff that never gets used. I'll believe it when I either see it or hear it from Slitherine .

After finished checking the lua file for the last scenario, I'm quite confident to say that those "Key Characters" are going to make their apparence in the future. Not going to spoil anything directly, but I'm sure we all know that a lot of Poles continued their fight after Poland has fallen...

could be a pain to implement though, because these guys can die at any point in the fall of Poland.

They'd have to be unique heroes and not story characters because writing them in to any story would be a pain with all the potential players that miss them IMO.

My implementation would be give the player some simple bonuses for the French DLC in the first mission, depending on who survived. One character could result in a gift unit (let's say, 1 star exp in a Polish faction assigned MS.406 fighter), one give a bit of extra prestige at the start, another a tank hero with some medium abilities (maybe No Retreat and a +1 initiative bonus), etc. These would be nice to have, but not game-breaking, and if these characters did not survive, the bonuses would scale down or be cut entirely - the planes become French and are just green troops, the prestige is standard, a hero is replaced with a standard French one or just skipped and so on. There's no need to continue the stories of these characters. They should be replaced with new ones.

I would have preferred if the story characters were real people, no matter how famous or not, and then they would join your core as unique heroes. If there was a noteworthy soldier who distinguished him or herself, even if they died in real, you could change history by saving them. I think that's the kind of ahistorical integration that many fans of the game would have liked to have seen. The Poles fought valiantly but that fact is often lost given the ultimate outcome.

This is really more of what I was expecting before the game released. Its focus on these individuals rather than trying to change the battle as a whole. For example, a Polish fighter pilot who survives the campaign thanks to your efforts and then continues to fly and fight for your core in France/Norway/BofBritain/North Africa/and so on using French, British, or American equipment. Same could be said for tank, infantry and other heroes. Then in the next DLC in the series you would add perhaps a couple French heroes and so forth.

adiekmann wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:26 pm I would have preferred if the story characters were real people, no matter how famous or not, and then they would join your core as unique heroes. If there was a noteworthy soldier who distinguished him or herself, even if they died in real, you could change history by saving them. I think that's the kind of ahistorical integration that many fans of the game would have liked to have seen. The Poles fought valiantly but that fact is often lost given the ultimate outcome.

I have to agree. No idea why don't see Orlik, Zumbach, or for example in the first mission, get an option to try and save Mastalerz instead, who was the killed commander of 18th Uhlans, mentioned by Urbanowicz in his dialogue (but not by name). Also, who on earth is that whole marshal Kerziorski who apparently gives initial orders - never heard of him. I seems that there is a bit too much fiction in the figures evoked, especially since in Axis Operations we have seen tons of historical figures.

I am enjoying this DLC very much so far, but the lack of debriefings plus this strange decision to have almost no prominent historical figures seems very strange and a shame to not have these elements.

I don't understand it either. Maybe the creators didn't have enough time to look for such information? The Republic of Poland had only two marshals: Pilsudski and Smigly-Rydz. I don't understand this fiction... Zumbach couldn't appear in this DLC because, in reality, he didn't participate in the battles. He had a plane crash earlier and hadn't recovered yet. You could also add countess Skarbek, a very interesting character.

I'm not involved in WS, but one thing to consider might be: if you add historical guys, you're limiting things to some extent.

People then may expect it to be mostly historical, and this can collide with other gameplay aspects or design ideas. Like you said there are only so many marshals - so you're essentially bound to their fate then.

No idea if this drove the decision here, just my 2 cents.

bebro wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 12:48 pm I'm not involved in WS, but one thing to consider might be: if you add historical guys, you're limiting things to some extent.

People then may expect it to be mostly historical, and this can collide with other gameplay aspects or design ideas. Like you said there are only so many marshals - so you're essentially bound to their fate then.

No idea if this drove the decision here, just my 2 cents.

Interesting viewpoint and I could agree with a lot of it, if it wasn't for Axis Operations as well as Grand Campaign already setting a certain precedent and I dare say expectations of having at least some historical figures be active. These addons mixed fictional characters like Wagner, Vega, Elsa Kloss etc. with real ones like Mannstein, Rudel, or Galland, which worked well and there wasn't really an issue with changing anyone's fate. Only realism concerns were really about the course of the fictional path, and not related to characters.

Thus looking, at War Stories, I do not have an issue with having Urbanowicz a a key character and not seeing Mastalerz with his fate changed as a hero instead. This works in the setting it is done. I also see no concerns about fictional civilian characters, or even key characters being people you meet on the way and who are 100% fictional as well. Still, there is no reason at all to suddenly mention some fictional field marshal who never existed and is now sending the player orders. It's also odd that none of the saved officers potentially say something like "Here's one of my best pilots/tankers. With my unit destroyed, I hope he can be of use to your own force." and assigning a historical hero to your core. It does not have to be many, just 1-2 would do purely to acknowledge the mechanic and continue proven, established solutions.

It is true that the game will constantly evolve, no single DLC will be the same as previous ones, especially in a an entirely different series. Even more so, in many ways I feel like War Stories does a lot of things best in the entire history of Panzer Corps 2, like for example throwing basic/bonus/elite objectives out of the window and replacing them with a varied, dynamic and engaging set of goals. However, why mechanics that worked and were liked by players (unique historical heroes, debriefings) got scrapped as well I have no idea, other than it was to give the series a fresh feel. I still think this sacrificed a bit too much on the altar of innovative approaches.

To put things into perspective - Frontlines also did not have historical figures, it also did not have unique heroes, but there it worked because of the smaller scale, length and standalone experience.

Finally, this is all constructive analysis, at least I hope it is perceived this way. What I find great and fascinating about the forum members raising the point about lack of historical heroes and debriefings, is the very civil and still acknowledges that the DLC works well. People seem to like War Stories: Fall of Poland for what it is, but its reception reminds me of AO: SCW, with the same community surprise due to a revolution in some of the proven design.