Slitherine

Any souls out there attempted to use Bgs of 4 LF (some of the allied lists in particular have these, tho Principate Roman can as well to some degree).

Effective at drawing out enemy shock troops? Too fragile to shooting?

Am planning on running about 4-5 of these, seeing how they work side by side trying to tempt out pikes or cataphracts and such from the enemy line. Large BGs of LF tend to be charged at one end and have to skulker away. The little 4 paks would require charges all along the line.

Thoughts? Results?

Dan T.

Well if you actually do it in a game I guess I could post a response that would be both intelligent and based on first hand knowledge. Please put your skirmishers in 4's, between my bows and my light horse I think I can remove your skirmish line before it becomes too much of a bother to my shock troops.

For a start they push your good troops down the order of march in deployment, so you can get them in a better position relative to the enemy. They are slightly more vulnerable, but if you keep them out of trouble it increases your BG count so you can lose more of the battle troops before an army break. It also makes it easier to concentrate your shots onto a single target.

Blathergut wrote:Any souls out there attempted to use Bgs of 4 LF (some of the allied lists in particular have these, tho Principate Roman can as well to some degree).

Effective at drawing out enemy shock troops? Too fragile to shooting?

Am planning on running about 4-5 of these, seeing how they work side by side trying to tempt out pikes or cataphracts and such from the enemy line. Large BGs of LF tend to be charged at one end and have to skulker away. The little 4 paks would require charges all along the line.

Thoughts? Results?

Dan T.

I use them when I can and they are great:
- catalan allies in the latin greek army
- assyrian javelinmen skythian and seleucid javelinmen

being in 4s they are very fragile as others mention, so they dont have the verstility fo 6's and 8's that can take on the skirmishers

They are the most value for money skirmishers of heavy foot and being so small are great at giving one or two extra shots to just help out in a larger BGs shootout with enemy.

One deep 4's can move with a BG of superior heavily armoured knights and take the first 2-3 bowshots for them. they then move back through before the charge. You just have to have the discipline to get a general with them to take them at least back up to disrupted so they dont count as a point to early in the game before all the generals are commited elsewhere in more important (desperate) actions.

Another use is with firearms to add the extra negatives for tests when combined with other more effective at generating hits units. You don't need large units for that

That's what I plan to do with my Ottomans.

LRRomans w a Numidian Ally, using 4 of those 4pak LF proved quite successful (this first time out anyway ) Proved effective at tempting out stuff where a larger BG would have less control (and could be chased away by one charge). Will definitely have to run them again.

Great for slipping in behind mounted units that are in frontal combat with foot too.

sadista wrote:Great for slipping in behind mounted units that are in frontal combat with foot too.

How do you achieve this?

Surely in 99% of cases it will be the opponent's turn.

Ian

Blathergut wrote: Large BGs of LF tend to be charged at one end and have to skulker away. The little 4 paks would require charges all along the line.

Not really. Its a question of where you put them.

Remember everyone in range must roll not to charge. So while the opponent may choose to charge one they all test.

The more Bgs rolling the VMD to evade and to pursue increases the change of freakish 6-1 results. Boom goes the LF and the enemy acclerate iin pursuit. So be very careful at distance and never get closer than is necessary for your objective.

I usually prefer 6s, unless I am trying to bulk size of the army or taking an ally.

hazelbark wrote:[Not really. Its a question of where you put them.

Remember everyone in range must roll not to charge. So while the opponent may choose to charge one they all test.

The more Bgs rolling the VMD to evade and to pursue increases the change of freakish 6-1 results. Boom goes the LF and the enemy acclerate iin pursuit. So be very careful at distance and never get closer than is necessary for your objective.

I usually prefer 6s, unless I am trying to bulk size of the army or taking an ally.

Well, the 4paks managed to draw out 1 pike phalanx (which ended up hit by Roman heavies and flanked on both sides by elephants), shoot at another and disrupt it, then proved to be much more nimble and manoueverable once they drew back behind the Roman heavies. Yes, they need to be lined up properly to be effective. But I was quite happy with how they worked out! And they negated the enemy slingers since the slings were stretched out in one line and could nowhere get more than 1 die on a BG.

mellis1644 wrote:Another use is with firearms to add the extra negatives for tests when combined with other more effective at generating hits units. You don't need large units for that

That's what I plan to do with my Ottomans.

I think firearm armed LF are great value at 16points per BG, especially in Medieval comps. They are great used in support of other shooters or to harass the enemy after they have been ground down.

In a recent comp a BG of 4 handgunners in my Italian Condotta list won me the game. After an epic struggle on my left flank I had a unit of halberdiers and a unit of knights broken and running. My opponent had four units of Polish Kn/Cv, two of which pursued and 2 of which were fragmented. After the pursuers had cleared out the handgunners moved in a shot at one of the fragmented KN/Cv BG's which had been reduced to 3 bases. A hit and they were broken. The handgunners then turned on the other unit which had been bolstered to disrupted and promptly sent them back to Fragmented breaking the army.

ottomanmjm wrote: I think firearm armed LF are great value at 16points per BG, especially in Medieval comps. They are great used in support of other shooters or to harass the enemy after they have been ground down.

IIRC the Ottomans can get 2 Poor BGs for that 16 points - each of which can cause the -1 CT modifier which has to be great value

timurilenk wrote:

sadista wrote:Great for slipping in behind mounted units that are in frontal combat with foot too.

How do you achieve this?

Surely in 99% of cases it will be the opponent's turn.

Ian

In your turn your foot move up close to the mounted and the LF get close behind them. Then when the mounted charge they don't have the space to break off.

I don't think LF block a break-off do they?

grahambriggs wrote:In your turn your foot move up close to the mounted and the LF get close behind them. Then when the mounted charge they don't have the space to break off.

Ah! Thank you Graham - I am still learning this stuff but I will remember that one

madaxeman wrote:I don't think LF block a break-off do they?

Even friendly LF block break offs

Good to know... worth to try