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Swiss allies (1491-1500 period)
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:08 am
by rbodleyscott
Rosedelio wrote (on Discord):
Rosedelio wrote:
Was skimming around army lists and noticed the anachronistic Swiss allies. Shouldn't this be part of the last German city list?
- Swiss error.jpg (96.9 KiB) Viewed 1876 times
Re: Swiss allies
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:10 am
by rbodleyscott
Paul replied:
Paul59 wrote:Good catch. However, they are also with the German (Feudal) 1450-1489 list.
Re: Swiss allies
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:15 am
by rbodleyscott
Clearly the 1491-1500 Swiss list needs to be removed from the ally lists of both those lists.
The question is whether they should be added to any other lists.
This seems to depend on whether the "Three Leagues of the Grisons", who were allied to the Swiss in the Swabian War in 1499 should count as a City League or Feudal. It seems to have been a mixture of both, so I guess it could be either.
Also, were there any other Swiss alliances with German entities in the 1491-1500 period?
Re: Swiss allies
Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2024 11:43 am
by Paul59
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 7:15 am
Clearly the 1491-1500 Swiss list needs to be removed from the ally lists of both those lists.
The question is whether they should be added to any other lists.
This seems to depend on whether the "Three Leagues of the Grisons", who were allied to the Swiss in the Swabian War in 1499 should count as a City League or Feudal. It seems to have been a mixture of both, so I guess it could be either.
Also, were there any other Swiss alliances with German entities in the 1491-1500 period?
I've only found them allied to Schaffhausen (also during the Swabian War), which was a city that later joined the Swiss Confederacy in 1501.
Re: Swiss allies (1491-1500 period)
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:43 pm
by fogman
From the point of view of the battle of Nancy, the corresponding list is German City + Swiss allies in which case we get a paltry couple of keils. It is clear however that the lower Rhine cities and the duke of Lorraine were the junior partners; so I suggest that it would be more appropriate if they were added as allies to the Swiss list of the Burgundian wars rather than the other way around.
Re: Swiss allies (1491-1500 period)
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2024 6:21 am
by rbodleyscott
fogman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:43 pm
From the point of view of the battle of Nancy, the corresponding list is German City + Swiss allies in which case we get a paltry couple of keils. It is clear however that the lower Rhine cities and the duke of Lorraine were the junior partners; so I suggest that it would be more appropriate if they were added as allies to the Swiss list of the Burgundian wars rather than the other way around.
Fair enough, in a future update.
Re: Swiss allies (1491-1500 period)
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2024 1:42 am
by fogman
OK thanks. I've got another suggestion for the English list 1155- but I'll wait until I complete research on Bouvines.
Re: Swiss allies (1491-1500 period)
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 12:31 am
by fogman
At present the English list for 1155-1172 have all sorts of auxiliaries, but the most prominent of them for the period from the revolt of 1173 to about the death of king John, those from the Low Countries.
I collected some sources on the topic here:
https://www.militaryhistorywithfog.com/bouvines-1214-ad