Slitherine

Up to this point I have almost 100 hours in Kingdoms, 250+ hours in Empires and about 100 hours in FoGII.
From the first hour I have come across a number of bugs that are really obvious for anyone playing the game, some even made it over from Empires (so I doubt they will ever get fixed), but I seem to be the only one affected by them?
Empires became unplayable for me after the anti-blobbing changes (while many glaring issues remained). I consider Kingdoms at this point barely playable ...

• Claims do not give authority in many cases (acquisition through diplomacy, annexing a vassal, liberating a region owned by a vassal that was conquered by an enemy during an ongoing war)
• Strange behavior of conquered and liberated regions (liberated regions don't go to the original owner, liberated regions can be "traded" away without peace, regions owned by a third party and conquered by an enemy loose their ownership flags when sieged by the player). This becomes even funnier, when one of your vassals liberates the capital of another one of your vassals, as you cannot even negotiate or resolve this problem.
• Conquered regions count toward demesne before peace (yes, its a bug, as they can't be targeted by decisions and can't form provinces). Tell that to Gustav II Adolph or William the Conqueror. Also causes problems with player agency when you start as Scotland and have to do something about the Byzantine Empire legacy gain.
• Defeated AI armies disappear. This makes wars ridiculously easy. I also consider it a long standing bug that battles are decided by the number of defeated units.
• Having war declared on the player raises the "to much in diplomacy" penalty. I also consider this whole concept of "too much diplomacy" an issue.
• Just like in Empires, income starts to oscillate (from +1000 to -1000 and back in a few turns with no pattern or explanation). In Empires it was due to the anti-blobbing formula that calculated the attrition cost based on income/cash. I hope that court expenses is not a left over from that formula. It may be related to going over "max" demesne.
• Having everyone and their mother place claims on your land can authority bankrupt a nation. In my HRE game, Norway put a claim on Prague and Skane had a claim on Milan! Having good relations does not prevent claims from being placed. The AI seems to suffer less from this. (in my HRE game, France has apparently no -authority from this, while in my France game with -2 authority, HRE does not seem to suffer)
• Negotiating for claims to be abandoned is ridiculously expensive for its BP. Made worse by the fact that a claim exists (-8 to negotiation). Forcing abandoning claims through war has similar issues, because you have to "conquer" (and therefore eat demesne penalties) a nation across the world with no supply. This problem also exist when its your 30 provinces big neighbor. Additionally they are bound to hate you after peace-ing, causing the claims to immediately re-appear. Worst case of whack-a-mole. Declaring war, peace and negotiating for claims also raises "too much diplomacy".
• My "exceptional diplomat" ruler (+10 to relations per turn) causes relations to deteriorate rapidly. (might be one of the many reload bugs)
• AI nations cannot properly path their armies. If there is a one tile country between, armies do not move. Armies do not go home to defend the capital. Armies do not prevent themselves from being out of supply. In my last game as HRE I witnessed a ridiculous dance where Papal states and Apulia reversed their positions three times over 100 turns, because the AI only goes forward and stops when getting stuck.
• Most regions (even capitals) do not have a special meaning in game, causing tags to frequently move across the world.
• Assigning a peer of the nation sometimes, but not always affects "authority gain up to" size. (i.e. having no governor makes no difference). This may not be a bug, but the explanation in the help section implies otherwise.
• For HRE going through the stages of an Empire (fractured -> unruly -> ...) has no effect, neither on demesne nor anything else. This may not be a bug, which would make this part of the game simply unimplemented.
• Regional building requirements are not always correct. A trade route can be built(!) with no merchant present or even a road (just a track). The cornerstone buildings do not unlock the next "stage", it seems to work the same as it did in Empires.
• As in Empires some of the buildings are so OP that basically every province looks the same at 25.
• Maybe because of the above, trade goods have a very minor impact on the game or build (turn 150 HRE with 2k income stands at -150 trade goods, while skipping most of the trade good producing buildings)
• AI nations do not have goals or strategies, this becomes apparent when they conquer each other and stay like this for 50 turns. (this is quite common due to the pathing issues of armies)
• The "win" condition in game is (as in Empires) odd. I stand at 50k legacy with HRE vs 18k Byzantine Empire turn 160, and have to go through another 20 hours of hitting "next turn". After reaching max demesne there is nothing to do, but whack-a-claim and play the build-a-province mini-game.
• Turns are very slow to calculate (a problem that remains from Empires). In my HRE game I have spent maybe 15 hours on end turn -> build a bunch of things -> end turn -> ... This makes Kingdoms the slowest 4x game with the most "nothing to do" between "interesting" things by a wide margin.

I'll add more when I think of them ...

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Up to this point I have almost 100 hours in Kingdoms, 250+ hours in Empires and about 100 hours in FoGII.

So listen closely to someone who has more than 6000 hours combined in those titles.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Empires became unplayable for me after the anti-blobbing changes (while many glaring issues remained). I consider Kingdoms at this point barely playable ...

Wrong. If anything it's too easy to offset Decadence by Culture X Loyalty. Cycling through the stages and conquering more and more objectives leads to the World Conquest by armies and diplomacy which I can achieve with Samnium on Suicidal difficulty. Altho at some point Decadence modifier from the Size plays a noticeable role.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Claims do not give authority in many cases (acquisition through diplomacy, annexing a vassal, liberating a region owned by a vassal that was conquered by an enemy during an ongoing war)

Works as designed. You have to work for them. Progress tokens and Authority national gain balanced in such a way to create prolonged game. No more quick rushes to Lvl 2 state 15 Loyalty bonus for the conquest purposes or lvl 3 for the Golden Ages snowball.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Strange behavior of conquered and liberated regions (liberated regions don't go to the original owner, liberated regions can be "traded" away without peace, regions owned by a third party and conquered by an enemy loose their ownership flags when sieged by the player). This becomes even funnier, when one of your vassals liberates the capital of another one of your vassals, as you cannot even negotiate or resolve this problem.

Temporary ownership starts 10 turns clock when region was liberated the first time. The only issue that if you swoop in as a third side to take that region from the temporarily occupier AND if you are not in war with original owner, you basically snatched a region similar to Empires. That's extremely apparent later in the game with Knighty Orders vs Rebels dynamic, and Vassals as in your example.

But remember two rules: if you have good relationships with Ally or Vassal they can cede the region to you instantly. Side with bigger combat power stack in the joint forces operation gets the region. Otherwise the one who assaulted it successfully get it. Can get unlucky with Impulses Faction acting order which recalculated each Impulse.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Conquered regions count toward demesne before peace (yes, its a bug, as they can't be targeted by decisions and can't form provinces). Tell that to Gustav II Adolph or William the Conqueror. Also causes problems with player agency when you start as Scotland and have to do something about the Byzantine Empire legacy gain.

Nope. Works as Intended. Characters loyalty mechanic tied to going over the limit temporarily. High rebellion rate in the densly populated temporarily conquered (not owned for RGD purposes) regions can create giant Rebels stack compared to meager Slave or Rebel forces from Empires. The idea is that your National Authority and therefore Local Authority will be slowly stained by staying in the war which further increases Character betrayal. My issue is that penalties has to be multiplied by 2,5 since they are too meager atm.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Defeated AI armies disappear. This makes wars ridiculously easy. I also consider it a long standing bug that battles are decided by the number of defeated units.

No they don't. Similar to Empires its very annoying when Client State/Vassal hides his remaining forces on Liege territory, especially ships tucked away in the distant ports. Rarely stacks disassemble or you gain landlocked fleets. That usually happens for neutrals. AI can fight till the bitter end. Can hide his last peasant deep in Ally territory.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Having war declared on the player raises the "to much in diplomacy" penalty. I also consider this whole concept of "too much diplomacy" an issue.

You start with 30 Diplomatic Actions and gain 1 per turn. That's done to prevent mass Insulting and Gifting, 2 super Overpowered strategies from Empires.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Just like in Empires, income starts to oscillate (from +1000 to -1000 and back in a few turns with no pattern or explanation). In Empires it was due to the anti-blobbing formula that calculated the attrition cost based on income/cash. I hope that court expenses is not a left over from that formula. It may be related to going over "max" demesne.

Wrong again. In Empires Administrative Burden was calculated off your current bracket (the optimal one is coerfers with lower than 5000 gold), nation size (regions formed in provinces halved that), Civilization level (higher is more painful), Buildings amount (punishes densly populated regions). You might have swing in Empires due to the next factors:
- Trade Routes canceled after the War started;
- You moved your army away from the provincial capital therefore lost 25% upkeep bonus.
- You hired more Inflation affected units (asterix news their upkeep)
- Unit Queues has units in them, so counted into the upkeep)

Same rules except brackets (straight up 25% after the threshold reached) and buildings upkeep apply in Kingdoms.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Having everyone and their mother place claims on your land can authority bankrupt a nation. In my HRE game, Norway put a claim on Prague and Skane had a claim on Milan! Having good relations does not prevent claims from being placed. The AI seems to suffer less from this. (in my HRE game, France has apparently no -authority from this, while in my France game with -2 authority, HRE does not seem to suffer)

They only place illogical Claims on you if you are in the top 10 Legacy and don't have high Relationships due to increased AI Aggression against nst snowballing players. Usually you get Claims if that's a part of their historic regions specified in CSV Tables or you have bad relationships.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Negotiating for claims to be abandoned is ridiculously expensive for its BP. Made worse by the fact that a claim exists (-8 to negotiation). Forcing abandoning claims through war has similar issues, because you have to "conquer" (and therefore eat demesne penalties) a nation across the world with no supply. This problem also exist when its your 30 provinces big neighbor. Additionally they are bound to hate you after peace-ing, causing the claims to immediately re-appear. Worst case of whack-a-mole. Declaring war, peace and negotiating for claims also raises "too much diplomacy".

AI has giant issues with Aggression after Empires 1.02 to the codebase future games build upon. I wish Pocus can revert those changes at least for 3 highest difficulty levels. Claims coating a lot makes sense since GOLD and National Authority is the OP resources in the game.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am My "exceptional diplomat" ruler (+10 to relations per turn) causes relations to deteriorate rapidly. (might be one of the many reload bugs)

Nope. They will deteriorate if you like Nations they hate or in War with, if you have Claims on their territories, if you gift to nations they hate or in war with, or if you are week economically, in war with other nations or your Land Power score is low.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am AI nations cannot properly path their armies. If there is a one tile country between, armies do not move. Armies do not go home to defend the capital. Armies do not prevent themselves from being out of supply. In my last game as HRE I witnessed a ridiculous dance where Papal states and Apulia reversed their positions three times over 100 turns, because the AI only goes forward and stops when getting stuck.

There are other fsctors. AI pathing is fine. Just have to return Manifest Destiny mechanic for AI be AI boosts AND increase their aggression against highly fortified regions. They smarter than in Empires since often run to block your Provincial capitals to prevent new troops being raised and get the extra Diplomacy mods for blocked capital. The current issue is AI doesn't have enough Upkeep bonuses to make up for their suboptimal army compositions.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Most regions (even capitals) do not have a special meaning in game, causing tags to frequently move across the world.

Wrong again. You get more regions to specialize them. Some natural resources required to build structures. Other buildings appear more if you have bonus resources filled up in advance. The biggest incentive is reducing Court Expenses, assigning Peers to go to 2x Cap for the Max Demesne AND hire local Mercenaries OR use them for Diplomacy exchanges. Obviously some regions are paramount to forming Kingdoms. Some has World Wonders or higher chances to build National Wonders. And you want to target your religion your native ethnicity regions with high stored Stewardship and Piety for passive Legacy gain.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Assigning a peer of the nation sometimes, but not always affects "authority gain up to" size. (i.e. having no governor makes no difference). This may not be a bug, but the explanation in the help section implies otherwise.

As I said in the previous responce you can go up to double your current civilization level Max Demesne specified in the CSV tables Governments. But modifiers still apply, so can push past this limit. Vassals has caps for effective Authority gain as well. Or it can be vise versa for those two variables. Dont have time to look up, but principle stands.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am For HRE going through the stages of an Empire (fractured -> unruly -> ...) has no effect, neither on demesne nor anything else. This may not be a bug, which would make this part of the game simply unimplemented.

That's not a bug. Similar mechanics existed for Antigonids in Empires.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Regional building requirements are not always correct. A trade route can be built(!) with no merchant present or even a road (just a track). The cornerstone buildings do not unlock the next "stage", it seems to work the same as it did in Empires.
As in Empires some of the buildings are so OP that basically every province looks the same at 25.

Nope. While some buildings always worth their slots you better specialize. Its obvious based on buildings that devs intended you to go for Specialization route. Now you want to have all Authority producing building from every branch esp. Military. Then dismantle low quality buildings once you got sought after buildings. But you can play in any way you want. Just make sure you have at least lvl 2 walls and roads/ports. Expansion purposes everything else, so speed is a top priority.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Maybe because of the above, trade goods have a very minor impact on the game or build (turn 150 HRE with 2k income stands at -150 trade goods, while skipping most of the trade good producing buildings)

Wrong. Trade income is a must have to support Mercenearies armies. You want to get all Bonus metal you can as well. Refer to the most precious goods from my New Players guide.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am AI nations do not have goals or strategies, this becomes apparent when they conquer each other and stay like this for 50 turns. (this is quite common due to the pathing issues of armies)

They do. Regions theybtarget specified in CSV tables. Then its dynamic based in how thehe game goes. Raiding nations are the most volatile since they typically have bad relationships with everyone.
If you have negative relationships on scenario start its very unlikely that two nations won't be stuck in the pertual wars for the whole campaign duration. Aggression and White Pieces is to blame for slow Conquests for sure. Altho later in the game bigger nations will amass huge enough Landowner plus -100 Relationships to stop white piecing.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am The "win" condition in game is (as in Empires) odd. I stand at 50k legacy with HRE vs 18k Byzantine Empire turn 160, and have to go through another 20 hours of hitting "next turn". After reaching max demesne there is nothing to do, but whack-a-claim and play the build-a-province mini-game.

Wrong. You forget about Diplomacy that can speed up any game snowballing. You forget about RGDs instigating and Declare War On.. diplomacy option. Once devs increase the aggression of AI you will your hands full every turn.

gronk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:51 am Turns are very slow to calculate (a problem that remains from Empires). In my HRE game I have spent maybe 15 hours on end turn -> build a bunch of things -> end turn -> ... This makes Kingdoms the slowest 4x game with the most "nothing to do" between "interesting" things by a wide margin.

Depends on your CPU and turn number. There is never nothing to do, but chances for special building events, national decisions, plagues, heretics, impediments, conversion speed are definitely too low. Conquest and Diplomacy outpaces everything. Thats one of my complaints. Economy can feel stale/not enough challenge because of that.