Slitherine

Never had this happen yet but for some reason it just kind of popped into my head. You have fragged troops frontally engaged, they get a flank charge declared against them.

They have to take a CT, if they fail it do they rout right away, and what do the chargers now do?

By looking at the turn sequence it looks like the charge happens anyway and the initial rout occurs at the end of the turn.

How many bases would the routers lose in this case? 1 for the charge, none for the melee?

Enquiring minds would like to know thankyou

Only lose a base if in contact at the end of the Joint Action Phase.
Gino
SMAC

deadtorius wrote:Never had this happen yet but for some reason it just kind of popped into my head. You have fragged troops frontally engaged, they get a flank charge declared against them.

They have to take a CT, if they fail it do they rout right away, and what do the chargers now do?

By looking at the turn sequence it looks like the charge happens anyway and the initial rout occurs at the end of the turn.

How many bases would the routers lose in this case? 1 for the charge, none for the melee?

Enquiring minds would like to know thankyou

At the end of Impact Phase you must remove bases for router still in contact with pursuer. 1 base for each pursuer. If BG in melee remain in contact and charger (who don't make any pursuit move because he made a charge move) reaches router and contacts him, than you remove 2 bases.

Nothing in the rules on being charged while fragmented (p61) give an exception for being in close combat, therefore they do make a CT, and if the fail the CT they make their rout before the chargers are moved. This rout will trigger immediate persuit by BGs already in contact.

The charging BG will then make its charge down the previously declared path.

The way I read the FULL TURN SEQUENCE, "initial pursuits" come after "charge moves". It appears to me the sequence would be: charge is declared - CT is taken for "fragmented troops being charged" - if they fail, they make their rout move - the charge move is made - the BG in close combat makes a pursuit move.

I don't see anything in the rules that mandates a charge being converted into a pursuit if the target breaks. Pursuits seem to be limited to BGs who began in close combat.

Terry G.

You charge.

If you make contact you are dealt with in the JAP just like troops who charge and contact routers normally.

Si

Mario,
I think you mean Joint Action Phase in this sentence NOt Impact Phase. Right?
Gino
SMAC

"At the end of Impact Phase you must remove bases for router still in contact with pursuer."

The way I read the FULL TURN SEQUENCE, "initial pursuits" come after "charge moves". It appears to me the sequence would be: charge is declared - CT is taken for "fragmented troops being charged" - if they fail, they make their rout move - the charge move is made - the BG in close combat makes a pursuit move.

I looked up on page 168 full trun sequence, you are correct the fragged troops make their CT when the charge is declared and if they break rout before the chargers move.
The comes charge moves. I would assume the chargers would chase after their intial target, since I don't think you can change targets once a charge is declared and it was that charge that caused the CT in the first place.

Also noted at the very bottom you remove a base if pursuers are in contact with the routers at the end of the Impact Phase... my body count for pursuits should be much higher with my last few games chasing broken Romans about.

I would have to assume that the troops originally in melee would also pursue if they had to at the end of the impact phase.

Thanks for your input

Ah....p. 108: Removing bases from routing BGs...pursuers who are in contact w a routing enemy BG at the end of any pursuit move inflict a 1 base loss...

this could happen twice in a turn...during impact/melee phase if you follow and contact routers ...and then in JAP when they rout again if you follow and catch them...

we've been doing it just in JAP

and it wasn't just routing romans oh dead one...

shall wrote:You charge.

If you make contact you are dealt with in the JAP just like troops who charge and contact routers normally.

Si

Do you mean that they don't take a CT for being charged when fragmented? If so where does it say this? What happens if the chargers are light so won't cause a cohesion loss on contact?
Or do you intend that they do take the CT but don't rout untill the end of the phase?
Or do you intend that they do take the CT and immediatly rout, and the chargers change path to follow?
Or do you intend that they do take the CT and immediatly rout, and the chargers charge down the declared path? If so when does the BG already in contact do its initial rout?

deadtorius wrote: The comes charge moves. I would assume the chargers would chase after their intial target, since I don't think you can change targets once a charge is declared and it was that charge that caused the CT in the first place.

No you can't change the path of the charge, the target changes as a result of evades, interceptions, etc. - the only time you can choose to change the path of a charge is if all the targets evade.

I would have to assume that the troops originally in melee would also pursue if they had to at the end of the impact phase.

Thanks for your input

The rules don't say - however I think it would be better if the pursuit was immediate (before the charge move) as that removes the problem of remembering which BGs are eligible to pursue. Also the rules talk about pursuers who remain in contact which wouldn't apply if there was a delay in the pursuit - they would be pursuers who have regained contact - its hard to justify "remaining in contact" when another BG has passed between the two BGs.

I think the rules Do say - in the Full Turn Sequence. "Initial pursuits" come after "initial rout moves" for Fragmented troops being charged and after "charge moves".

Terry G.

kal5056 wrote:Mario,
I think you mean Joint Action Phase in this sentence NOt Impact Phase. Right?
Gino
SMAC

"At the end of Impact Phase you must remove bases for router still in contact with pursuer."

Well, in effect I made an error. Since in the example there were 2 BGs, one charging and one in melee, the one in melee if remains in contact causes a base removal. The BG in charge not because it's a charger, not a pursuer (I read it in another thread).

I think the rules Do say - in the Full Turn Sequence. "Initial pursuits" come after "initial rout moves" for Fragmented troops being charged and after "charge moves".

Actually it says test for fragmented, if they fail make initial rout
make intercept charges, make evade moves, resolve CT for fragmented troops who are now targets due to evades, if they break make initial rout moves, move charges etc
then after you resolve impact combat and and take cohesion test you move any more routers then you make initial pursuit moves.

So I guess you have to remember who was fighting the fragged dudes then after all the fighting is done they can try to catch them.

deadtorius wrote:

The comes charge moves. I would assume the chargers would chase after their intial target, since I don't think you can change targets once a charge is declared and it was that charge that caused the CT in the first place.


No you can't change the path of the charge, the target changes as a result of evades, interceptions, etc. - the only time you can choose to change the path of a charge is if all the targets evade

Got it, so if a new enemy is revealed they get to get close and personal with the chargers, if no one else is around you wheel and try to contact the original target.
Thanks

deadtorius wrote:

deadtorius wrote:
The comes charge moves. I would assume the chargers would chase after their intial target, since I don't think you can change targets once a charge is declared and it was that charge that caused the CT in the first place.

No you can't change the path of the charge, the target changes as a result of evades, interceptions, etc. - the only time you can choose to change the path of a charge is if all the targets evade

Got it, so if a new enemy is revealed they get to get close and personal with the chargers, if no one else is around you wheel and try to contact the original target.
Thanks

No the only time you can change the path is if all targets evaded, in this case the target routed, so you carry on on the original path - potentially blocking the pursuers if the pursuit has to wait to the end of the phase.

sagji wrote: No the only time you can change the path is if all targets evaded, in this case the target routed, so you carry on on the original path - potentially blocking the pursuers if the pursuit has to wait to the end of the phase.

And since the target routed from a charge it must rout in the direction of the charge. Making it simpler.

I thought the rules state that in a case like this the routers rout in an equal angle away from both enemies.

That would be the case if there were two chargers. In this case, the target is in close combat when charged by another enemy BG, so if it breaks, it only routs away from the single charger.

Terry G.

ok
Thanks