Slitherine

Off we go:

Lydian Hoplites should be 48 instead of 51:
avg arm off spear: 6.5
off spear: 1.5
8x6 = 48

Should Libyan Swordsmen be 50 instead of 51?
avg light prot foot: 4.5
impact foot: .5
swordsmen: 1
6x9 = 54
-8% 3 deep impact foot = 49.68, rounded to 50

Likewise for Sherden Swordsmen, 54 instead of 55?
avg prot foot: 5
impact foot: .5
swordsmen: 1
6.5x0 = 58.5
-8% 3 deep impact foot = 53.82 rounded to 54

Ugaritic Heavy Chariots are costed at 60 while equivalent superior heavy bow chariots are 58; I believe the latter is correct.

Spearmen should be 33 instead of 36
avg unprot foot: 4
off spear: 1.5
5.5x6 = 33

Picked Spearmen should be 45 instead of 48
sup unprot foot: 6
off spear = 1.5
7.5x6 = 45

The only area for the new lists I didn't look very closely at was chariots, as I found their costing a bit confusing, but other than the Ugaritic they *look* right. I also think Syrian Spearmen might theoretically actually be 41 instead of 40, but they really don't need to cost more so who cares.

Thanks Jack

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:31 pm Off we go:

Lydian Hoplites should be 48 instead of 51:
avg arm off spear: 6.5
off spear: 1.5
8x6 = 48

Yes

Should Libyan Swordsmen be 50 instead of 51?
avg light prot foot: 4.5
impact foot: .5
swordsmen: 1
6x9 = 54
-8% 3 deep impact foot = 49.68, rounded to 50

Yep

Likewise for Sherden Swordsmen, 54 instead of 55?
avg prot foot: 5
impact foot: .5
swordsmen: 1
6.5x0 = 58.5
-8% 3 deep impact foot = 53.82 rounded to 54

Yep. Likewise Sea Peoples Swordsmen (Peleset).

Ugaritic Heavy Chariots are costed at 60 while equivalent superior heavy bow chariots are 58; I believe the latter is correct.

Yep

Spearmen should be 33 instead of 36
avg unprot foot: 4
off spear: 1.5
5.5x6 = 33

Picked Spearmen should be 45 instead of 48
sup unprot foot: 6
off spear = 1.5
7.5x6 = 45

Yep

The only area for the new lists I didn't look very closely at was chariots, as I found their costing a bit confusing, but other than the Ugaritic they *look* right.

Superior Bow Armed light chariots should be 42 not 44. (Maryannu, Egyptian)

Early Chariots Bow should be 37 not 38.

According to the points chart, light spear chariots should be more expensive than they currently are, but they certainly shouldn't cost more than they do in Ancients. I will alter the points chart to fix the anomaly.

Reducing the cost of light spear to 0.5 for chariots largely fixes the issue. Strictly speaking early chariots would cost 31, but as I say, they should not cost more than in Ancients so I will ignore that.

(Jack: See email)

I also think Syrian Spearmen might theoretically actually be 41 instead of 40, but they really don't need to cost more so who cares.

Fair enough

I feel the chariot costing overall for timewarp is a little high.
Superior heavy chariots were bow/spear are going down from 60/52 to 58/52
Superior light chariots were bow/spear are going down from 44/36 to 42/36
if I understand this correctly.

Superior arm cav bow have gone down from 64 to 56. While sup HCh Bow have dropped from 60 to 58. So a drop of 8 points compared to a drop of 2 points.
However protected cav bow have gone down from 42 to 36. These are not far off Superior light ch bow (have played this match up a few times) in value but while the cavalry have dropped 6 points the ch are only dropping 2 points.
The chariots are also going to suffer a little in combat because of the greater numbers of lancers in Medieval armies (of course this effects them too against later Ancients armies with more lancers appearing).

I would drop the Superior heavy chariots down to 54/48 or maybe 56/50 points
and the Superior light chariots to 40/34 points
and the lower quality ones in similar proportions.

Have played a couple of games with timewarp chariots. Two games is not a lot to go on but the light chariots were outmatched by mixed cavalry wings in both of them.

I am rather doubtful about reducing the points cost of superior light spear light chariots. At 36 points you have a superior unit capable of evading and flank attacks. I don't think they need to be cheaper.

I think it would be reasonable to reduce the cost of
a) superior bow light chariots to 40.
b) superior bow heavy chariots to 54 (as they can't evade).
c) superior light spear heavy chariots to 48 (ditto).

Other grades pro rata.

What say you?

I think that is fine.

It is difficult to judge the light chariots, as a flank charging unit or against infantry they are fair value, probably if you bring a swarm of them to fight against cavalry (who have become cheaper) they will struggle.

Here are the Time Warp points changes for the next update:

• Time Warp points changes:

• o Reduced cost of some chariots:
  •  Superior light chariots (bow) to 40. (Indian, Maryannu, Egyptian)
     Above average light chariots (bow) to 35. (Early chariots)
     Average light chariots (bow) to 30. (Elamites).
     Superior heavy chariots (bow) to 54. (Indian, Assyrian, Egyptian, Ugaritic)
     Superior heavy chariots (light Spear) to 48. (Carthaginian, Hittite, Mycenaean)
     Above Average heavy chariots (light spear) to 39. (Sumerian battle cars)
     Scythed chariots to 30.
     Light Spear Light Chariots not reduced in cost, as they are cheap enough already.
  o Corrected points cost of various other units that were incorrectly costed:
  •  Lydian armoured hoplites to 48
     Sherden and Peleset swordsmen to 54
     Libyan swordsmen to 50
     Akkadian/Sumerian shieldless spearmen to 33
     Superior Akkadian/Sumerian shieldless spearmen to 45
     Gasgan Warriors to 39
     Zagros Warriors to 36

• Main game points changes (also in Time Warp):

• o Trebuchets and Bombards from 36 to 40.
  o Bolt Shooters and Light Guns from 24 to 30.