Slitherine

One of the things I struggle most is knowing which units and in which situations do break offs happen. For example, a think lancers are less likely to break off but I think I have seen them break off sometimes. Also seen light cavalry break off after a charge and, other times, not breaking off, even when the melee odds are bad.
So, can anyone help me understand or are there any rules that define when and when not does a unit break off?

Thank you.

Jorgito78 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:56 am One of the things I struggle most is knowing which units and in which situations do break offs happen. For example, a think lancers are less likely to break off but I think I have seen them break off sometimes. Also seen light cavalry break off after a charge and, other times, not breaking off, even when the melee odds are bad.
So, can anyone help me understand or are there any rules that define when and when not does a unit break off?

Thank you.

It's summarized in the manual, but - cavalry charged by shock cavalry cannot break off. Cavalry that themselves charged shock cavalry can break off. Cavalry engaged by two units at a 90 degree or greater angle are trapped in melee. Outside of these constraints, cavalry will break off if they don't fancy the odds. There is some rng in the calculations too. Shock cavalry are non light lancers, knightly lancers, and heavy chariots.

IIRC unit also can't break off if they would break into a square that is in the enemy (primary?) ZoC. However, I can't find that from the changelogs so I could be misremembering.

MVP7 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:01 pm IIRC unit also can't break off if they would break into a square that is in the enemy (primary?) ZoC. However, I can't find that from the changelogs so I could be misremembering.

This used to be the case but was patched out maybe 2 years ago

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 5:38 am

Jorgito78 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 12:56 am One of the things I struggle most is knowing which units and in which situations do break offs happen. For example, a think lancers are less likely to break off but I think I have seen them break off sometimes. Also seen light cavalry break off after a charge and, other times, not breaking off, even when the melee odds are bad.
So, can anyone help me understand or are there any rules that define when and when not does a unit break off?

Thank you.

It's summarized in the manual, but - cavalry charged by shock cavalry cannot break off. Cavalry that themselves charged shock cavalry can break off. Cavalry engaged by two units at a 90 degree or greater angle are trapped in melee. Outside of these constraints, cavalry will break off if they don't fancy the odds. There is some rng in the calculations too. Shock cavalry are non light lancers, knightly lancers, and heavy chariots.

So, when you say "cavalry charged by shock cavalry cannot break off", do you mean that they can't evade or if they don't evade in the turn they are charged, they won't be able to break off the following turn?

Also, "engaged by two units at a 90 degree angle or greater", regardless of unit types? (Ex, being engaged by two lights)

How about foot, when a shock cavalry charges foot, regardless of being a front or flank charge, will they break off?

I'm sorry for so many questions.

Jorgito78 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:00 pm So, when you say "cavalry charged by shock cavalry cannot break off", do you mean that they can't evade or if they don't evade in the turn they are charged, they won't be able to break off the following turn?

Can't fall back after impact or out of an ongoing melee. No effect on evasion rules. Rare exception - if they charged an enemy first and then shock cav charge them I believe they may fall back, as they are still considered the original attacker.

Also, "engaged by two units at a 90 degree angle or greater", regardless of unit types? (Ex, being engaged by two lights)

Correct

How about foot, when a shock cavalry charges foot, regardless of being a front or flank charge, will they break off?

Foot can't fall back from horse, so I assume you mean the cavalry. They will fall back if they don't fancy the odds, which is the vast majority of the time against steady foot.

I'm sorry for so many questions.

Not at all. It's a deep game.

Also, I have seen light cavalry charging non-light cavalry and not breaking off. Is there some particular rule for this to happen?
Sometimes they even prevent flanking (ex: you set up a flanking with your cavalry. Then, your cav Is charged by light cav that stays engaged so you can't flank in the following turn).
It would be good to know in which particular instance does light cav stays engaged since it is useful for preventing flank charges sometimes.

Jorgito78 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:57 pm Also, I have seen light cavalry charging non-light cavalry and not breaking off. Is there some particular rule for this to happen?
Sometimes they even prevent flanking (ex: you set up a flanking with your cavalry. Then, your cav Is charged by light cav that stays engaged so you can't flank in the following turn).
It would be good to know in which particular instance does light cav stays engaged since it is useful for preventing flank charges sometimes.

If they don't lose the initial impact and bounce off, there's a good chance they'll stick around for one round of melee, at least against cavalry. I couldn't tell you the math behind it though. It's a good use of light cavalry, although often at the cost of a cohesion drop in the subsequent melee.

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:32 pm

Jorgito78 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:57 pm Also, I have seen light cavalry charging non-light cavalry and not breaking off. Is there some particular rule for this to happen?
Sometimes they even prevent flanking (ex: you set up a flanking with your cavalry. Then, your cav Is charged by light cav that stays engaged so you can't flank in the following turn).
It would be good to know in which particular instance does light cav stays engaged since it is useful for preventing flank charges sometimes.

If they don't lose the initial impact and bounce off, there's a good chance they'll stick around for one round of melee, at least against cavalry. I couldn't tell you the math behind it though. It's a good use of light cavalry, although often at the cost of a cohesion drop in the subsequent melee.

From what I have seen light cavalry will stay in melee with non-light cavalry until they lose a round of close combat badly, they will then fall back.

The other thing to remember is that non-light cavalry don't seem to be able to fall back into disordering terrain (ie; Rough or Woods etc). I'm not sure if that is just when they have to fall back diagonally.

Cavalry engaged by two units at a 90 degree or greater angle are trapped in melee.

There is an exception case to this.
If a unit is fighting two opposing units and they are at 90 degrees to each other, then:
If it is facing one of them then it cannot break off.
If it is facing at 45 degrees between the two then it can break off. This doesn't happen often but it can occur if there was a third enemy unit engaged.

So it is the facing that mattes, and it is an enemy unit in melee to the flank of your own unit stops the break off.