Slitherine

Last nights game of Norse Irish vs Italian Condotta threw up an odd situation (now that the rules have been around for a while the odd situations are coming to light) :






= irish kerns facing down page
= brave italian hand gunners facing up page
= irish axemen facing down page and side edge to side edge with the gunners

Now it is the irish turn and we delve into the rule book page 76 as the irish commander wants to turn the axemen 90 degrees to face the gunners during the manoeuvre phase, the section states that 'If they do not move away, no comabt occurs unless they are eligible to fight as an overlap. If not they can engage in melee as follows: ...'

Now as the irish are eligible to fight as an overlap are they allowed to turn? As far as I could read in the rules you can only contact a BG for combat in the impact phase or in manoeuvre phase to move to an overlap position or as above on page 76 if you were not able to fight as an overlap.

What happened next was that the kerns broke. If the axemen were an overlap then the gunners could pursue the kerns, if the axemen turned then the would not be able to pursue.

So the fate of the gunners hung on the abilty of the axemen to turn.

Would appreciate some help with whether the 90 degree turn of the axemen was legal or not.

They can't turn as they are an overlap - your reading was correct IMO.

First you are in the wrong bit of the rules. your axemen are presumably fighting in melee. Page 76 is about when yoiu are left in side edge contact with no fighting currently possible. This bit is all about "how to create a melee when touching enemy but no combat will currently occur.

Now it is the irish turn and we delve into the rule book page 76 as the irish commander wants to turn the axemen 90 degrees to face the gunners during the manoeuvre phase, the section states that 'If they do not move away, no comabt occurs unless they are eligible to fight as an overlap. If not they can engage in melee as follows: ...'

ok that means you ar free in manouvre phase to move away and into another overlap position, but cannot do much else as it would need a charge. You cannot currently fight as an overlap if using page 76, as if using page 76 there is no fight to overlap.

Now as the irish are eligible to fight as an overlap are they allowed to turn? As far as I could read in the rules you can only contact a BG for combat in the impact phase or in manoeuvre phase to move to an overlap position or as above on page 76 if you were not able to fight as an overlap.

Thus page 76 does not apply at all and indeed you can turn - in any direction, and choose to move and leave the overlap. If you turn your front bases still count as in front edge contct with enemy. There are no flank effects as its not a charge, but it does open the option to expand next time which gives more dice sometimes.

What happened next was that the kerns broke. If the axemen were an overlap then the gunners could pursue the kerns, if the axemen turned then the would not be able to pursue.

Indeed it would wrap them up in a bit of trouble.

si

Si, I think you have misread the situation. The Axemen are in a legal overlap position and so cannot turn 90 degrees to fight as the rule that allows that (starting bottom of p76) starts "If not ..." which follows the bit that says "no combat occurs unless they are eligible to fight as an overlap.". As they can fight as an overlap "If not ..." cannot apply.

Did terry get Si's user ID????

But as Nik said, the rules don't allow one to turn on a BGs flank if they are in legal overlap to that BG....

Madcam.

... And BTW, something TimPorter pointed out as one big frustrations that a move we all did in DBx to speed up the destruction of an element/line is not possible in the rules....

Madcam.

nikgaukroger wrote:They can't turn as they are an overlap - your reading was correct IMO.

Just to make sure I understand the overlap rules correctly, I assume only 1 stand of the axemen would be able to fight in the melee as an overlap. It has no other ranks behind the one in contact with an enemy stand in the first rank so I assume the axemen would only contribute one die from this overlap position.

Chris

Page 76 is titled

"BGs already in close combat but not yet committed to close combat"

It doesn't apply to the situation set out above at all therefore.

Si

Thanks guys for the replies.