Slitherine

Here I wanna post what Scenarios I think will be in the ahistoric or historic campaign tree.

Ahistoric:

• Case Orange
  Operation Corridor
  Operation Tusk
  Operation Stormbird(D-Day)
  Minsk Offensive

Historic:

• Lvov 1944
  Kolozsvar
  Operation Panzerfaust
  Operation Margarethe
  Warsaw Rising
  Lublin
  Cernauti
  Targu Frumos
  Battle of Carei
  Lysyanka
  Shanderovka

Not Sure/Could be in Both:

• Riga 1944
  Herrlingen
  Operation Panzerschreck
  Battle of Ploesti

Wow, 8-9 missions, including one air only, feels so short for a campaign

Afair in every panzer general games you had less scenarios in the end of the war.
Thats just logical, since your core is fully experienced and there is no need for some filler maps, so that you can work on your core.
Plus the game is designed that you have to attack with your core. In the last years the war was decided, germany was just rinning on all fronts trying to avoid the inevitable. Hard to design at lot of scenarios that make sense or are not just repetitive.

Talking about the ahistorical part I guess its far harder to create completly new scenarios while trying to keep everything logical. Im fine with the number of scenarios, as long as the "story" makes sense.
Since my cores are full of heroes, awards and stuff since 1942 the main and maybe best part of the game is already completed.

Judging from the screenshots the Minsk Offensive scenario represents a historical battle that was part of the Operation Bagration.

Also the Battle of Ploiesti could be an air-only scenario representing the historical bombardment of the Ploiesti refineries by Western Allies in1944.

The Riga scenario is interesting. There was a battle for Riga in 1944, but in the autumn, the scenario in the screenshot takes place in the summer. So I'd say it's an ahistorical scenario.

DacianWarrio wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:58 am Judging from the screenshots the Minsk Offensive scenario represents a historical battle that was part of the Operation Bagration.

Also the Battle of Ploiesti could be an air-only scenario representing the historical bombardment of the Ploiesti refineries by Western Allies in1944.

The Riga scenario is interesting. There was a battle for Riga in 1944, but in the autumn, the scenario in the screenshot takes place in the summer. So I'd say it's an ahistorical scenario.

Yeah. Operation Doppelkopf happened on Aug 16-27. The screenshot is July 7. In ahistorical path the North and Center Army Group is even worse than historical. Leningrad encirclement ended earlier. Army Group Center suffered heavier casualties.

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 6:40 am Plus the game is designed that you have to attack with your core. In the last years the war was decided, germany was just rinning on all fronts trying to avoid the inevitable. Hard to design at lot of scenarios that make sense or are not just repetitive.

That's actually one of the reasons I did not enjoy the Grand Campaign 1944 East and 1945 East in Panzer Corps 1 that much. It felt too long, to repetitive and frankly a grind. While very realistic, it does not translate well into gameplay. With Panzer Corps 2 having updated support mechanics defensive missions like Saarbrucken are much more enjoyable, but the AI is not able to coordinate attacks well and it's entirely possible to roadblock even huge forces. This would mean that a long defensive focused campaign would risk dragging far too long. So as you say, it's probably better to cut the number of missions in favor of picking ones with more dynamic and varied objectives.

DacianWarrio wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:58 am Judging from the screenshots the Minsk Offensive scenario represents a historical battle that was part of the Operation Bagration.

Not really. If you look at the date and the goals of this mission it looks more like an ahistoric mission.

Stormbird is one of Me262's nickname.

The dev diary mentioned "Though ultimately unsuccessful, the seeds of changing your campaign destiny were first sown way back in the 1940 DLC. Events revolving around the capture of British Jet Fighter blueprints have been showing up ever since, including the potential early arrival of the Me262 Jet Fighter in Axis Operations 1943."

That become very clear: Due to the blueprints we captured, Germany has more Me262 in a much early time. That could change the air superiority of the west. In that scenario we use Me262 to regain air superiority and wipe out the landed ally force and fire support navy.

We can see a 25str Spitfire and multiple Me262 from the screenshot.

Wagner0445 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:35 pm

DacianWarrio wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:58 am Judging from the screenshots the Minsk Offensive scenario represents a historical battle that was part of the Operation Bagration.

Not really. If you look at the date and the goals of this mission it looks more like an ahistoric mission.

Seriously.

This is the historical Minsk Offensive in 1944 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_offensive

And this is what's shown from the Minsk Offensive scenario in the AO 1944 :
https://www.slitherine.com/images/scree ... 3227cf.png
https://www.slitherine.com/images/scree ... 13e667.png

You will see that :
- The dates line up between the historical event and the scenario in the screenshot (29 June onwards)
- The overall situation is identical between the historical event and the scenario (4th Army defending and at risk of being encircled, 5th Panzer Division providing relief)

There is nothing in the screenshots to suggest that the AO 1944 Minsk Offensive scenario doesn't represent the historical Minsk Offensive.

UncleAi wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:17 pm That become very clear: Due to the blueprints we captured, Germany has more Me262 in a much early time. That could change the air superiority of the west. In that scenario we use Me262 to regain air superiority and wipe out the landed ally force and fire support navy.

We can see a 25str Spitfire and multiple Me262 from the screenshot.

I dont see how this could work. If you have 2-3 Me262 and put some super heroes on it, some overstrength, some double attack heroes or other crazy stuff...either the allies get more overstrength or just a ridiculous number of units, or crazy heroes and/or prototype units to even it out. I fear that could ruin the feeling of the game. I very curious to find out.

My two cents: The first ten scenarios listed are the ahistorical path, and the second ten are the historical path.

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:00 am

UncleAi wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 2:17 pm That become very clear: Due to the blueprints we captured, Germany has more Me262 in a much early time. That could change the air superiority of the west. In that scenario we use Me262 to regain air superiority and wipe out the landed ally force and fire support navy.

We can see a 25str Spitfire and multiple Me262 from the screenshot.

I dont see how this could work. If you have 2-3 Me262 and put some super heroes on it, some overstrength, some double attack heroes or other crazy stuff...either the allies get more overstrength or just a ridiculous number of units, or crazy heroes and/or prototype units to even it out. I fear that could ruin the feeling of the game. I very curious to find out.

From the screenshot player only deployed 17 units(air only). And the map and object showed Germany take back British invaded French beach. Destroyed at least 32 ally units. Sunk at least 4 BB. Apparently ahistorical. Probably only the US army survived and be stuck in Brittany Peninsula.

DacianWarrio wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:07 am

Wagner0445 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:35 pm

DacianWarrio wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 9:58 am Judging from the screenshots the Minsk Offensive scenario represents a historical battle that was part of the Operation Bagration.

Not really. If you look at the date and the goals of this mission it looks more like an ahistoric mission.

Seriously.

This is the historical Minsk Offensive in 1944 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_offensive

And this is what's shown from the Minsk Offensive scenario in the AO 1944 :
https://www.slitherine.com/images/scree ... 3227cf.png
https://www.slitherine.com/images/scree ... 13e667.png

You will see that :
- The dates line up between the historical event and the scenario in the screenshot (29 June onwards)
- The overall situation is identical between the historical event and the scenario (4th Army defending and at risk of being encircled, 5th Panzer Division providing relief)

There is nothing in the screenshots to suggest that the AO 1944 Minsk Offensive scenario doesn't represent the historical Minsk Offensive.

If you compare the 2 pic you will find the 2nd pic added a lot of Germany units. It is clearly player's unit. And the mighty 5th Pz Div even didn't moved. And the slot is ZERO.

I guess it is "one scenario two use". If all scenario only used once the amount on each path is too less.
If you are in historical path you can't deploy any unit. You can only use 5th Pz Div try to save 4th Army. No matter finished object or not you move to next scenario.
If you are in ahistorical path your mighty corps arrived and completely stop Operation Bagration. In ahistorical path Army Group Center and North is weaker than history. They need our support.

UncleAi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:52 pm If you compare the 2 pic you will find the 2nd pic added a lot of Germany units. It is clearly player's unit. And the mighty 5th Pz Div even didn't moved. And the slot is ZERO.

I guess it is "one scenario two use". If all scenario only used once the amount on each path is too less.
If you are in historical path you can't deploy any unit. You can only use 5th Pz Div try to save 4th Army. No matter finished object or not you move to next scenario.
If you are in ahistorical path your mighty corps arrived and completely stop Operation Bagration. In ahistorical path Army Group Center and North is weaker than history. They need our support.

I don't think that's technically possible. Core slot of a scenario (map) is set in that map, and I don't think there is any way to change that besides the manual cheat codes for the same map. This seems to be an aux only map, the type only showed up once in AO39, Forbach, where you can only have aux units to command.

UncleAi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:52 pm

DacianWarrio wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:07 am

Wagner0445 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:35 pm

Not really. If you look at the date and the goals of this mission it looks more like an ahistoric mission.

Seriously.

This is the historical Minsk Offensive in 1944 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_offensive

And this is what's shown from the Minsk Offensive scenario in the AO 1944 :
https://www.slitherine.com/images/scree ... 3227cf.png
https://www.slitherine.com/images/scree ... 13e667.png

You will see that :
- The dates line up between the historical event and the scenario in the screenshot (29 June onwards)
- The overall situation is identical between the historical event and the scenario (4th Army defending and at risk of being encircled, 5th Panzer Division providing relief)

There is nothing in the screenshots to suggest that the AO 1944 Minsk Offensive scenario doesn't represent the historical Minsk Offensive.

If you compare the 2 pic you will find the 2nd pic added a lot of Germany units. It is clearly player's unit. And the mighty 5th Pz Div even didn't moved. And the slot is ZERO.

I guess it is "one scenario two use". If all scenario only used once the amount on each path is too less.
If you are in historical path you can't deploy any unit. You can only use 5th Pz Div try to save 4th Army. No matter finished object or not you move to next scenario.
If you are in ahistorical path your mighty corps arrived and completely stop Operation Bagration. In ahistorical path Army Group Center and North is weaker than history. They need our support.

There is the precedent of Operation Roland featuring the 6th Army as an optional. It is thus possible for some historical battles to be featured in the ahistorical campaign but with some changes.