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Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:08 pm
by MerlinTheWise
It might ruffle someone's feathers but do hear me out. Long story short, this is a 4X TBS, not an RPG. An RPG without a story is pretty much a shooter game ('cough', C'2077, 'cough'), and this story (or stories) must be strong; essentially the game revolves around it (them).
Now, MoM is Civ (empire building) + tabletop RPGs (heroes and units leveling, abilities, etc) + MtG (magic system). Only 1/3 of them (RPGs) have a story. MoM has a lot of amazing and deep ideas, ranging from heavy-hitting fantastic beasts to alchemy and city building. A story simply won't add anything to it, it's going to be like a car's fifth wheel, because it will be very weak. You can't have a great story and a grand 4X strategy. This, I believe, is the difference between RPGs and 4X games.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:07 pm
by Arent
MerlinTheWise wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:08 pm
It might ruffle someone's feathers but do hear me out. Long story short, this is a 4X TBS, not an RPG. An RPG without a story is pretty much a shooter game ('cough', C'2077, 'cough'), and this story (or stories) must be strong; essentially the game revolves around it (them).
Now, MoM is Civ (empire building) + tabletop RPGs (heroes and units leveling, abilities, etc) + MtG (magic system). Only 1/3 of them (RPGs) have a story. MoM has a lot of amazing and deep ideas, ranging from heavy-hitting fantastic beasts to alchemy and city building. A story simply won't add anything to it, it's going to be like a car's fifth wheel, because it will be very weak. You can't have a great story and a grand 4X strategy. This, I believe, is the difference between RPGs and 4X games.
Well, Alpha Centauri did have a great "storyline", but it was told indirectly, through the description of the factions and quotes from the technologies.
Also the first civilisation had one of the greatest "storylines" of all games - an intro, in which the world formed, the development of a civlization and finally the colonization of the stars.
And colonization also had a storyline told through intermissions.
So, the "stories" of 4X games are usually more of a 'red string' that runs in the background.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:24 pm
by MerlinTheWise
Arent wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:07 pm
MerlinTheWise wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:08 pm
It might ruffle someone's feathers but do hear me out. Long story short, this is a 4X TBS, not an RPG. An RPG without a story is pretty much a shooter game ('cough', C'2077, 'cough'), and this story (or stories) must be strong; essentially the game revolves around it (them).
Now, MoM is Civ (empire building) + tabletop RPGs (heroes and units leveling, abilities, etc) + MtG (magic system). Only 1/3 of them (RPGs) have a story. MoM has a lot of amazing and deep ideas, ranging from heavy-hitting fantastic beasts to alchemy and city building. A story simply won't add anything to it, it's going to be like a car's fifth wheel, because it will be very weak. You can't have a great story and a grand 4X strategy. This, I believe, is the difference between RPGs and 4X games.
Well, Alpha Centauri did have a great "storyline", but it was told indirectly, through the description of the factions and quotes from the technologies.
Also the first civilisation had one of the greatest "storylines" of all games - an intro, in which the world formed, the development of a civlization and finally the colonization of the stars.
And colonization also had a storyline told through intermissions.
So, the "stories" of 4X games are usually more of a 'red string' that runs in the background.
If it's something like 'there was a great ... and the wizards and races got scattered across two planes' - that's fine. But if is going to resemble Planetfall in this respect - nah, it's like a fifth wheel to a cart.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:20 pm
by DXMage
It would be nice to have both. That said storyline doesn't place before the following: Have at least all of the functions of the OG, units of the OG, maybe a better interface, better breakdown and display of the unit stats, speaking of units adjustable total number in the millions, better city management or even better a SMART AI for city management instead of having to micromanage every single little nuance (though still have that available), better graphics/sound, much bigger maps being available, maybe a 3rd or 4th realm being available, maps that will require up to 64 gb of ram (for a game that lasts many months), no practical limit to memory usage for when the really big DDR5 dimms come out, make full use of up to 128 cores (have to think of the future) then after all of that a good story line.
Something like that in the order of importance.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:40 am
by Arent
MerlinTheWise wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:24 pm
If it's something like 'there was a great ... and the wizards and races got scattered across two planes' - that's fine. But if is going to resemble Planetfall in this respect - nah, it's like a fifth wheel to a cart.
Well, we already have an intro. Which basically says there is a war between powerful mages.
So, we only need an "outro", where one of the mages wins.
That's the story. If you want to, you can also insert little tidbits into the description of the spells. For example, you could state how Kali used a spell to level an enemy city. And how Freyja regrew the tainted lands using a nature spell.
That would be an even better story.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:32 pm
by hakhare
Agreed
No real story required. We essentially create the story as we play. Every time we lose a unit or finally defeat the Skydrake guarding the freakin Sorcery Node. A post game retelling of the greatest achievements or turning points of the game would be fun.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:33 pm
by hakhare
Agreed
No real story required. We essentially create the story as we play. Every time we lose a unit or finally defeat the Skydrake guarding the freakin Sorcery Node. A post game retelling of the greatest achievements or turning points of the game would be fun.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:33 pm
by hakhare
Agreed
No real story required. We essentially create the story as we play. Every time we lose a unit or finally defeat the Skydrake guarding the freakin Sorcery Node. A post game retelling of the greatest achievements or turning points of the game would be fun.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:33 pm
by hakhare
Agreed
No real story required. We essentially create the story as we play. Every time we lose a unit or finally defeat the Skydrake guarding the freakin Sorcery Node. A post game retelling of the greatest achievements or turning points of the game would be fun.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:48 am
by prikos
It would be nice to have both. That said storyline doesn't place before the following: Have at least all of the functions of the OG, units of the OG, maybe a better interface, better breakdown and display of the unit stats, speaking of units adjustable total number in the millions, better city management or even better a SMART AI for city management instead of having to micromanage every single little nuance (though still have that available).
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:23 pm
by MerlinTheWise
Here's an idea that could replace the storyline a bit: how about making battles more meaningful, like in the real life, add a kind of commemoration, to celebrate the past glory and triumphs. Here's a couple of examples:
1. A wizard defeats a rival wizard in a massive battle. To celebrate it, his kingdom gets a -1 unrest and +1 productivity for N turns. Mirror effect on the loser side.
2. Units fighting in that battle get to display some kind of 'medal of honor' in the stats window or something like that, also perhaps with a small bonus.
3. Additionally, there should be a type of 'ledger', where the wizard's victories and defeats should be recorded displaying the wizard's military prowess (lest we forget!), resulting in a kind of global long-term buff or nerf.
Large encounters are a lot riskier, but should have pay-offs to stimulate the player think when and how to engage the enemy!
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 8:45 pm
by Arent
MerlinTheWise wrote: ↑Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:23 pm
Here's an idea that could replace the storyline a bit: how about making battles more meaningful, like in the real life, add a kind of commemoration, to celebrate the past glory and triumphs. Here's a couple of examples:
1. A wizard defeats a rival wizard in a massive battle. To celebrate it, his kingdom gets a -1 unrest and +1 productivity for N turns. Mirror effect on the loser side.
2. Units fighting in that battle get to display some kind of 'medal of honor' in the stats window or something like that, also perhaps with a small bonus.
3. Additionally, there should be a type of 'ledger', where the wizard's victories and defeats should be recorded displaying the wizard's military prowess (lest we forget!), resulting in a kind of global long-term buff or nerf.
Large encounters are a lot riskier, but should have pay-offs to stimulate the player think when and how to engage the enemy!
Most of these ideas were already in the original, in the form of the "fame" mechanic. So, if Slitherine faithfully recreates that mechanic, you might get what you want:
https://masterofmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Fame
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:18 am
by prikos
Agreed
No real story required. We essentially create the story as we play. Every time we lose a unit or finally defeat the Skydrake guarding the freakin Sorcery Node. A mod apk game retelling of the greatest achievements or turning points of the game would be fun.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:03 pm
by mnutz419
A storyline serves no purpose in a game like this. Even so unless it was procedurally generated it would get old after about the 5th playthrough. For most of us that are going to play it a couple hundred times that would just generate unwanted interruptions.
On a different note... any idea of an update soon? Please?
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:14 am
by TalonThorn
I agree about the story line being nonessential. It isn't the storyline I'm looking forward to -- I make my own story! I hope it is optional or shallow or doesn't interfere with gameplay if there is a story.
Re: Master of Magic doesn't need a storyline
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:38 am
by athineos
Great TBS games do not need Story Line to be successful in terms of gameplay that will stand the course of time. AOW III, HOMM III, WARLORDS II, WARLORDS III DLR, etc. have been on my hard drive forever. I never get tired of them. They All have a Robust Random Map Generator, Scenario Editor, and also, some have a campaign Editor. In great games like those, you can make great stories (campaigns) that can be only limited by ones imagination. I have a feeling this Master of Magic will occupy a permanent space in my hard drive although I have not done any meddling with the editor yet.