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Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Mon May 16, 2022 5:59 pm
by Konigstiger88
Should all the KV tanks (including KV-1, Kv-2 and KV-85) and the IS-1/IS-2 tanks be in the same upgrade family? The KV tanks generally all used the same hull and the IS series was a enlarged/modified version of this. So would this be fair to say they would be comparable the various upgrades to the Panzer III and IV's?
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 3:04 pm
by zanozza
Konigstiger88 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 5:59 pm
Should all the KV tanks (including KV-1, Kv-2 and KV-85) and the IS-1/IS-2 tanks be in the same upgrade family? The KV tanks generally all used the same hull and the IS series was a enlarged/modified version of this. So would this be fair to say they would be comparable the various upgrades to the Panzer III and IV's?
I agree (made it in my Personel e-file). And KV-S too. Its ALL - Heavy Tanks (Series - HT). But Excluding KV-2. KV-2 was a Arty Tank (Sturm Tank in Germany classication. Like a Brummbar or Brit Bishop) - Class 4, I think.
- KV-2.jpg (75.61 KiB) Viewed 3607 times
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 4:23 pm
by guille1434
I completely agree... Also, I edited my equipment file to include the KV-1 variants, Kv-2 and KV-85 in the same upgrade family, as they all shared basically the same hull components. The same goes for the IS-1 and IS-2 (but included in a different family from the KV-1 variants), but the IS-3 should be excluded, because it was a completely different design which only shared only a few components, as this model had a new turret and a new hull.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 5:12 pm
by Vano2004
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:18 pm
by zanozza
Too many links, uzbek. Too many.
@guille
IS-3 not did not participate in a fighting. Only Parade
- IS-3 parade.jpg (7.88 KiB) Viewed 3543 times
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:42 pm
by Locarnus
Imho there are good arguments for both sides, depending on personal preference.
KV and IS are certainly closely related as the sources from vano show.
Certainly more than eg the He 111 and the He 177, or the Wurfrahmen 40 and the Panzerwerfer42, which share the same upgrade family. Or eg some of the US TDs or German Pak, which also share the same upgrade family in vanilla PzC.
On the other hand, it is not the same chassis just with a different gun or turret, like eg Panzer III or IV.
I would decide based on the desired campaign/scenario incentives. Prestige and upgrade costs in PzC are such loose concepts anyway.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:56 pm
by guille1434
zanozza wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 6:18 pm
@guille
IS-3 not did not participate in a fighting. Only Parade
I know that, but the IS-3 unit is present in the original Pz Corps equipment file and shares the same upgrade family with the IS-2, which is, in my opinion, not correct. I think that the IS-2 is much more related to the IS-1 than to the IS-3.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 7:47 pm
by zanozza
guille1434 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 6:56 pm
IS-3 unit is present in the original Pz Corps equipment file and shares the same upgrade family with the IS-2, which is, in my opinion, not correct. I think that the IS-2 is much more related to the IS-1 than to the IS-3.
Maus (tank) also present in the original Pz Corps equipment file
And so ?
Think about "Series" in PzC not a like "Old single Tank upgrade to New a single Tank".
In War game like PzC its looks like: "Tanks Battalion (or Regiment/Division) equiped Pz IV got a new equipment - Pz V. For training (change Series in PzC terms) you need a pay a penalty".
Thats all. Forget about what a chasse or turret differens Pz IV from Pz V.
Or a start play in WoT
PS
For info:
- series tanks IS have a different chassie from KV series
- IS-1 and IS-2 have a same chassie and a different turret/gun
- Upgraded Tiger.jpg (33.1 KiB) Viewed 3507 times
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 7:56 pm
by Vano2004
zanozza wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 6:18 pm
Too many links, uzbek. Too many.
@guille
IS-3 not did not participate in a fighting. Only Parade :)IS-3 parade.jpg
And where did I write that IS-3 participated in World War II? And the links, well, who does not want to , can not walk on them )
"Muzzle" from Vori. External differences between Leningrad and Chelyabinsk KV-1 tanks on its example.
https://iam-krasnoyarsk.livejournal.com/5476.html
https://clck.ru/hGZnL
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:08 pm
by zanozza
Vano2004 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 7:56 pm
And where did I write that IS-3 participated in World War II? And the links, well, who does not want to , can not walk on them )
I send info about IS-3 at guille, not you.
So... One post - One Link. OK ?
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:11 pm
by Vano2004
zanozza wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:08 pm
Vano2004 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 7:56 pm
And where did I write that IS-3 participated in World War II? And the links, well, who does not want to , can not walk on them )
I send info about IS-3 at guille, not you.
So... One post - One Link. OK ?
Ты чего тут раскомандовался, не нравятся мои ссылки просто не ходи по ним !.И помни в чужой монастырь со своими указами не лезут !
https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnik ... /serii-is/
https://en.topwar.ru/4740-tanki-serii-i ... talin.html
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:18 pm
by zanozza
Vano2004 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:11 pm
Ты чего тут раскомандовался, не нравятся мои ссылки просто не ходи по ним !.И помни в чужой монастырь со своими указами не лезут !
You just got everyone with your silly links and BIG pictures.
PS vano2004 (uzbek2012) - in my foes List.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 8:41 pm
by zanozza
Wanna another ban uzbek2012 (vano2004) to December 2025 ?
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 9:35 pm
by guille1434
Well, I was just answering to user Konigstiger88 about his idea, and think he had a good one...
I don't want to discuss technical or historical facts with someone who is a newbie here and write very much like another forum member who was banned because of abusive conduct to other members. When I want to know some technical or historical detail, I have good books and many other references to consult. Much less I want someone tell me if I have to play Word of Tanks or any other game.
That's all.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
by zanozza
guille1434 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:35 pm
Well, I was just answering to user Konigstiger88 about his idea, and think he had a good one...
I don't want to discuss technical or historical facts with someone who is a newbie here and write very much like another forum member who was banned because of abusive conduct to other members. When I want to know some technical or historical detail, I have good books and many other references to consult. Much less I want someone tell me if I have to play Word of Tanks or any other game.
That's all.
You can continue to upgrade icon of Karl-Gerät, if dont have a brain a more. You are not a newbie. There are a lot of wild monkeys in Brazil.
PS Buy a good computer to play PzC and very good conputer to play WoT like me.
- Show time 1.jpg (38.08 KiB) Viewed 3309 times
Save up money, brasilia boy
And continue read a BOOKS.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:51 am
by cw58
zanozza wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:54 pm
guille1434 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:35 pm
Well, I was just answering to user Konigstiger88 about his idea, and think he had a good one...
I don't want to discuss technical or historical facts with someone who is a newbie here and write very much like another forum member who was banned because of abusive conduct to other members. When I want to know some technical or historical detail, I have good books and many other references to consult. Much less I want someone tell me if I have to play Word of Tanks or any other game.
That's all.
You can continue to upgrade icon of Karl-Gerät, if dont have a brain a more. You are not a newbie. There are a lot of wild monkeys in Brazil.
PS Buy a good computer to play PzC and very good conputer to play WoT like me.Show time 1.jpg Save up money, brasilia boy
And continue read a BOOKS.
Regarding the OP (and to stay on topic), I don't think there is a wrong answer or choice to your question. There is a lot of "stretching" reality in this game, so I think you could justify or rationalize either choice.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:36 am
by zakblood
zanozza is now banned again, please don't get yourself a warning for against rule replies to poor off topic and bad posts, please just report them, and don't feed the trolls
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 4:23 pm
by imp44791
For me the prestige costs signify the logistical hassle of switching equipment rather than production costs: sending back old equipment, getting new one in, training crews in the new equipment, getting in new ammunition (a big deal in the move from 76mm to 85mm and then 122mm, including for crews since the stowing and loading of rounds is quite different). When a new tank has similar characteristics as the old one (suspension, driving characteristics, dimensions -esp. vehicle height) than the smaller cost makes sense: it's just training and basic supply, as well as the replacement of turrets - adding armor. So, the Pz III/IV upgrade path, even with the switch to long barrel guns, is easier than moving from KV1s to IS1s (and even KV-85s). IS1-->2 is also a fairly big deal, if you only think of the different round format.
For planes, much of the "natural" (aka cheap) upgrades concern engines. So, Folgore to Veltro is not such a big deal, and neither is the endless iterations of 109s or Spitfires. Sure, the flying characteristics change and pilots need to be trained, and of course engines have to be put into airframes. But it's not such a large jump as He-111 to 177, or Me110 to 410.
Or at least this is how I role-play it. Others will see it differently. The historicity of PC is so loose as to require such roleplaying approaches if disbelief is to be suspended.
Re: Should all KV tanks and IS tanks be in same upgrade family?
Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:09 am
by LevV
somebody said the RPG element in this game is a big deal. i think a lot of people will agree that overall buy/upgrade concept is loose. I conclude that there should be more upgrade families to enable old units live and shine longer. My answer to IS and KV in same family will be yes, including many others such as weak early war tanks that have no upgrade path (pz I and II, t-26, etc)
