Slitherine

Imagine the scene:




______

Enemy troops facing right
Troops facing left broken by during melee
Troops facing down the page
__less than 1 MU

When breaks does take a minus for threatened flank, at the time of the test will impact it, in effect next turn, but it does not charge it/cannot charge it in its next turn

Also if there is a general with the broken can that general add to 's Cohesion Test score for the break, if within command distance MU, as he is no longer in front line combat even though the BG he is with, , has just broken.

Yes they would recieve a -1 for threatened flank.
I dont think the general would count as he must rout with the unit he is with. (Hard to give someone orders if your being chased with a sharp pointy stick)

sadista wrote:Yes they would recieve a -1 for threatened flank.

But threatened flank is enemy capable of charging flank/rear in their next turn. Which the pursuers cannot as they will hit it this turn. It has already been stated in previous threads that those already in contacted to flank or rear do not count this minus. Unless within 6 MU of table edge or a different flank/rear charge possibility.

I dont think the general would count as he must rout with the unit he is with. (Hard to give someone orders if your being chased with a sharp pointy stick)

But a general in front rank combat can only influence a BG he is with. This general is no longer in combat as the test is taken after breaking, but before break movement. If the general was at the rear of the BG (not fighting) when it broke, IMHO I don't think he should be able to add to anybody's tests but, he can the way the rules are written

Dont have my rules with me unfortunately.

Your right, the cohesion does not get a minus one for threatened flank as the enemy cannot charge it.
The cohesion is done at end of melee phase? so the general can give it the + as it is not yet breaking with the unit it is with.

philqw78 wrote: But threatened flank is enemy capable of charging flank/rear in their next turn. Which the pursuers cannot as they will hit it this turn. It has already been stated in previous threads that those already in contacted to flank or rear do not count this minus. Unless within 6 MU of table edge or a different flank/rear charge possibility.

I think they would take a -1.

My reasoning:

Right now, stop everything. Nobody moves. Nobody does anything.

Now, can the guys charge in their next bound (assuming nothing changes). Yes.

Thus, -1.

Ian

This does look a little odd at first glance until you think how it interacts with what happens next ... but I have ruled that the -1 doesn't count because they can't charge it in their next turn as the figures lie at the moment. All such things are taken as they lie.

The reason it is this way is that we wanted ot avoid too many double whammy effects. Rather than havinga benefit of -1 making it more likely that the "target" will drop a CT level, they are going to hit it in the flank with a 100% certain CT drop.

This basically means that prusuers who will run into a flank:

Force a CT drop when they hit
If in range to cuase a rout test might cause 2
But don't get the additional whammy of making the 2nd much more likely

Hence we didn't put "or pursue into" to avoid this double whammy where you would get a lot of FRGs on contact and breaks after 1 round of combat - its nasty enough as it is I am sure you agree.

So to me it is RAW.

Si

Excellent, and the general who was in front rank combat, but is now about to rout, can he add to the CT of the BG about to be contacted in flank?

Depends if he was in front rank combat or not. If he was then he still is until the rout happens. If not then sure he can help.

Si

DaiSho wrote:

philqw78 wrote:
Now, can the guys charge in their next bound (assuming nothing changes). Yes.

Thus, -1.

Ian

Depends on how far the broken group flee. If there isnt room for the pursuers to get to grips with the flank of the unbroken lads. when you do your "freeze frame" they are actually still in contact with another abeit broken BG arent they? HMM... to the turn sequence I think.

expendablecinc wrote: Depends on how far the broken group flee. If there isnt room for the pursuers to get to grips with the flank of the unbroken lads. when you do your "freeze frame" they are actually still in contact with another abeit broken BG arent they? HMM... to the turn sequence I think.

Why?

Si's answered it.

Ian

Depends if he was in front rank combat or not. If he was then he still is until the rout happens. If not then sure he can help.

Page 101 - first bullett

"A commander who is with a battle group at the moment it breaks must rout with it once. Until the joint action phase he cannot leave the battle group and cannot influence any complex move tests or cohesion tests"

Simon - you're wrong

Indeed Mr Ruddock is correct. I couldn't find that bit when looking and there it is on page 101.

Si

dave_r wrote:

Depends if he was in front rank combat or not. If he was then he still is until the rout happens. If not then sure he can help.

Page 101 - first bullett

"A commander who is with a battle group at the moment it breaks must rout with it once. Until the joint action phase he cannot leave the battle group and cannot influence any complex move tests or cohesion tests"

Simon - you're wrong

Didn't i have to find that rule for you at the IWF , Dave?

Nope for me

nikgaukroger wrote:Nope for me

Ahh there were two incidents and the first made the second easy. I did not remember which came first the Nik or the Ruddock.