Slitherine

Why there are only raw pavises (Florence gets normal ones)? And where is the heavy infantry?

Hrafnagudh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:04 pm Why there are only raw pavises (Florence gets normal ones)? And where is the heavy infantry?

The named Italian lists are upgrades of the standard Guelf/Ghibellene list. (The Venetian upgrade is that they can bring more crossbowmen.) Since only the raw pavisiers appear in the standard Italian list, the Venetians don't get them.

The Venetians have the Dismounted Mercenary Men-at-Arms, which are decent heavy infantry, if expensive due to their armor.

Thanks for the answer, I was expecting something more "specific" like "Venetian heavy infantry", but it makes sense

Hrafnagudh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:04 pm Since only the raw pavisiers appear in the standard Italian list, the Venetians don't get them

But Florence does get non raw ones though. Is that a Florentin bonus? My Most Serene heart is hurt now

Hrafnagudh wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:51 am Thanks for the answer, I was expecting something more "specific" like "Venetian heavy infantry", but it makes sense

Hrafnagudh wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:04 pm Since only the raw pavisiers appear in the standard Italian list, the Venetians don't get them

But Florence does get non raw ones though. Is that a Florentin bonus? My Most Serene heart is hurt now

This issue was discussed on the Beta forum before the lists were finalised.

Of all the major Italian city states, Florence made the most use of its militia on land. Venetian militia mostly fought on ship-board, especially prior to the end of the 14th century, hence the large number of Average Crossbowmen units in the Venetian list. We thought it unlikely that mixed pavisier and crossbow units would be suitable for shipboard use, and hence unlikely that the Venetians would devote much effort to training such units.

The main troop type in all Italian armies of this period was mercenary elmeti (men-at-arms) who could fight mounted or on foot as required.

There will be more non-MAA heavy infantry in the 15th century Italian lists when they arrive - including pikemen and billmen and even some Swiss.

Thanks! Cant wait for it then