Slitherine

Hello,

normally, I think, cavalry units which are Fragmented are not allowed to charge other units.

I've seen the following hppening a couple of times now:

1. Cavalry unit is in melee with enemy unit, the cavalry unit becomes Fragmented in the course of the melee.
2. The enemy unit at this point is broken, most likely by another unit joining the melee.
3. The cavalry unit now pursues (this doesn't always happen, but sometimes) and in the course of the pursuit, even charges other "units of opportunity", causing appropriate damage (especially if in the flank or rear).

Is this supposed to happen like this? Or is it a limitation due to the specific circumstances?

This is working as designed. Fragged units that are pursuing are the exception to the general rule.

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:09 pm This is working as designed. Fragged units that are pursuing are the exception to the general rule.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Seems like an odd design choice, but it is what it is.

MikeMUC wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:56 am Seems like an odd design choice, but it is what it is.

Fragmented units are not broken ones. They still fight. They still want to fight. If they succeeds in making the enemy unit they fight break (even with the help of another friendly unit), it is logical they'll get excited and pursue it. In the madness of a battle, with a very limited understanding of what is happening around, that excitement/bloodlust counterbalances their low morale and makes them act illogically.

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:38 am Fragmented units are not broken ones. They still fight. They still want to fight. If they succeeds in making the enemy unit they fight break (even with the help of another friendly unit), it is logical they'll get excited and pursue it. In the madness of a battle, with a very limited understanding of what is happening around, that excitement/bloodlust counterbalances their low morale and makes them act illogically.

Thanks for replying, I understand your general argument, that in the heat of battle, it could be argued that the pursuit should still, sometimes, happen.
I don't agree with the statement that fragmented units still want to fight - as can be deduced from the fact that you can't initiate combat with them and only move them with a much decreased rate. Basically, these units are spent and lost any cohesion, so they most definitely will only fight for survival, if attacked.
This characterisation makes it difficult for me to accept your argument that it would be "logical" that the cavalry would pursue.

But like I said, it is what it is and it is also not a big deal, due to it being such a rare event.
I would probably have changed that so that fragmented units can't pursue at all - in line with the general rule of reduced mobility / inability to charge.

While typical charge would be done by well organized troops a pursuit following breakthrough from melee could be very spontaneous and bloodthirsty affairs. I think of a unit getting "charged" by a pursuing unit as the routed troops fleeing into the friendly formation while their pursuers are moving and hacking away at them in their midst. A successful charge means that the haphazard pursuit disorganizes the other unit sufficiently to prevent them from properly resisting the pursuers while unsuccessful charge would mean the pursuers face any meaningful resistance and, in case of being fragmented, don't have the support of the usual formation to prevent them from being swarmed.

The unit cohesion does double duty as the depiction of the state of the tactical organization as well as the average mental state of the troops in the unit, so there can be edge cases like this where the formation might be in shambles but the individual warriors are still hacking away in blood-lust. It will take a few pitchforks in a steady line to stop but if that happens the lone had-been-pursuers are in deep trouble.

As for the pursuing unit having been fragmented before the pursuit began, even if the to-be pursuers were near breaking point before, there's no way the tables turning right in front of them wouldn't reinvigorate them. It could even make sense for fragmented units that have their last melee opponent broken to automatically rally into disrupted state.

Arguably a unit being able to pursue while staying "steady" and ready to continue operating as formation as soon as they break pursuit, despite the likely chaotic nature of that action, is more unrealistic than than "fragmented" unit being able to "charge" from pursuit.

MikeMUC wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:09 am

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:38 am Fragmented units are not broken ones. They still fight. They still want to fight. If they succeeds in making the enemy unit they fight break (even with the help of another friendly unit), it is logical they'll get excited and pursue it. In the madness of a battle, with a very limited understanding of what is happening around, that excitement/bloodlust counterbalances their low morale and makes them act illogically.

Thanks for replying, I understand your general argument, that in the heat of battle, it could be argued that the pursuit should still, sometimes, happen.
I don't agree with the statement that fragmented units still want to fight - as can be deduced from the fact that you can't initiate combat with them and only move them with a much decreased rate. Basically, these units are spent and lost any cohesion, so they most definitely will only fight for survival, if attacked.
This characterisation makes it difficult for me to accept your argument that it would be "logical" that the cavalry would pursue.

But like I said, it is what it is and it is also not a big deal, due to it being such a rare event.
I would probably have changed that so that fragmented units can't pursue at all - in line with the general rule of reduced mobility / inability to charge.

Maybe think of it as the fight or flight reflex, something that is not pondered or decided upon, but just happens. The fragged unit not engaged is “safe” and has no desire to put itself at risk, the fragged unit fighting for its life and suddenly victorious goes from prey to predator just like that!