Slitherine

Hey there,

I just tried something new while playing the DLCs. I am a bit confused about 2 skills.
- panzer general ==> should save you 25% core slots for tanks. I like tanks, I got a lot of tanks, so I always took this power. While exporting my army from 1941 to 1942 I just realized this skill is either bugged or useless. With this skill all my tank units require 29 core slots, without this trait 31. That's not even 10%! Seems like this trait has no effect to tankt that require just 3 core slots or less. Is this working as intended? So basically this trait is completly useless before 1942 unitl your tanks require 4 more core slots?

- (operational) initiative. I took this power for the first time. My understanding is the enemy got initiative of 4 and you have 5 you will shoot first?! But somehow my infantry, even if I run a super hero with +2 initiative on them, do not really shoot first when they got attack.

What do you guys think?

I have not performed any particularly detailed analysis of the mathematics governing the trait, but in my experience it is especially potent on 3 core cost tanks (such as the IIC, 38(t)A, & IIIN). It lowers their costs by 33%, reducing the 3 slot cost to 2 and a 15 STR overpower from 6 slots to 4.
By contrast, it is essentially useless on the 2 core slot cost A and B models.

It usually reduces the tanks' slots by one, more if you're talking expensive tanks like the Tiger and Panther. Infantry General normally reduces it by one slot as well even later game as they are not slot expensive as tanks become mid-war and beyond.

If you are rolling in Zero/reduced Slots heroes, you might not need either of them. Otherwise, I usually do because it adds up. OS them gives varied results based on what unit and how much you OS. Experiment with it and decide for yourself if you think its worth it.

The slot reduce is applied to the unit itself, not your total slot cost. 3 slot will become 2.25=2 slot,

First question. You need to show us some pictures. It sounds like a bug, but I have never encountered it.
Second question. Each plus initiative allows 20% of your unit to fire first. Assuming your unit has 10 strength, when you have 5 initiative while your enemy has 4, 2 out of 10 strength of your unit will fire first. Obviously, only when your unit has 5 more initiative than your enemy will let your entire unit fire first.

sakura006 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:16 am First question. You need to show us some pictures. It sounds like a bug, but I have never encountered it.

Since I am now on the 1942 DLC I am not sure If I can reproduse it.
But like I said, I had about 8-9 tanks, most of them Panzer III / Panzer IV. Without the skill the all took 31 core slots.
When I took the skill, still 29 core slots were needed.
My feeling is the system cant deal with units that only need 3 slots.
1 tank unit with 4 slots * 0,75 = 3 ==> ok!
1 tank unit with 3 slots * 0,75 = 2,25 ==> system cant deal with this number, so its still 3. ==> not nice

Second question. Each plus initiative allows 20% of your unit to fire first. Assuming your unit has 10 strength, when you have 5 initiative while your enemy has 4, 2 out of 10 strength of your unit will fire first. Obviously, only when your unit has 5 more initiative than your enemy will let your entire unit fire first.

Thanks, I didnt know it working like that. Makes sense...

3 slot unit will be reduced to 2 slot, not 3.

DefiantXYX wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:02 pm 1 tank unit with 4 slots * 0,75 = 3 ==> ok!
1 tank unit with 3 slots * 0,75 = 2,25 ==> system cant deal with this number, so its still 3. ==> not nice

I am pretty sure it will take at least 1 slot less than the original if you take panzer general.
You can still start a new campaign at 1942 with imported cores from 1941. Once you save your core, the file will be there until you delete it. If you could show us a picture, we can probably give you some thoughts.

Be aware that not all Pz III and IV tanks cost the same number of slots

e.g. Panzer IIIG = 3 slots (2 with PG trait), but Panzer IIIL = 4 slots (3 w/PG trait)

same for various Mk. IV tanks

All examples are for 10 strength units

Ok, there we go. First screenshot is without panzer general skill. I only put my tanks active. Second screenshot is with panzer general skill. It only saves 1 core slots! Same army. 6 Tanks are Panzer III J. No heroes involved that have effect on the core slots.

Did you take panzer general in 41dlc? From what I can see, the core cost has already been reduced even without panzer general. If I am not mistaken, Panzer 3/4 take 3 core slots, the kv1/2 take 5. That's already 28 cores slots. And you over strength all of them. So it should be higher than 28 if you never took panzer general in 41. From what I understand, the beginning of a scenario is determined based on the last scenario. So the general trait hasn't been taken into account in this scenario. Similar things happen for deny artillery/air force. If you take deny artillery/air force at 41, you still can't buy any artillery/aircrafts in the first scenario of 42 no matter what general trait you take. Although I don't understand why it's 27 cores when you take panzer general.

does the PG/IG Trait reduction apply to OS also? I know using the Reduced Slots Hero, You need to increase/decrease OS for Slot Reduction optimization.

PanzerIIIJ cost 3 slot by default, and with +3 OS it should go to 5 slot a unit. Here we have 5*6=30 slots.
KV-2 cost 5, no OS, 30+5=35 slots.
I'm not sure which KV-1 model that is in your screenshot, but all of them are 5 slots so with +1 OS it should be 6, 35+6=41 slots.

Now with Panzer General, things should be like this:
PanzerIIIJ cost dropped to 2, with +3 OS to 3, 3*6=18
KV-2 cost to 4, 18+4=22.
KV-1 cost ro 4, with +1 OS to 5, 22+5=27.

Could you check how many slot is each unit costing with and without Panzer General? I guess we should be able to find what's causing that +1 cost without it.

sakura might have hit the point here, traits you have taken in the last DLC campaign will last until the end of the first scenario of the new DLC campaign. As we can see you already have the slot cost reduced.

Yes, I was alwasys running panzer general trait.
I will check the stats later.

But in my opinion thats a bug. If I start an new campaign and want to pick a different setup I wont play the first scenzario to the end to check if its ok like that.

mhh it depends a lot of overstrengh,
some units can be overstrenght by 1 or 2 without extra costs.

iam not really sure, but i think there can be a second bug with prototype and captured units, i think the skill dont work with them or not with all,

Do you have any Reduced or Zero Slots heroes in those tanks?