Slitherine

So, I think that pretty much anyone agrees that commandos and special forces are close to useless.

They are very cool on paper and have potentially devastating abilities.
Now I get that they're not frontline units, but their attack value is shockingly low. I realized it while attacking Japanese citizen militia and getting a bloody nose.
I also get that you're supposed to use the "knife" attack, but even then damage is low and once they get return fire in the computer turn they still get excessive losses despite their traits.

So far their only uses I found was scouting and blowing up undefended bridge. Even the smallest amount of enemy resistance leads to considerable losses.

Epperaliant wrote: ↑Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:37 pm So, I think that pretty much anyone agrees that commandos and special forces are close to useless.

They are very cool on paper and have potentially devastating abilities.
Now I get that they're not frontline units, but their attack value is shockingly low. I realized it while attacking Japanese citizen militia and getting a bloody nose.
I also get that you're supposed to use the "knife" attack, but even then damage is low and once they get return fire in the computer turn they still get excessive losses despite their traits.

So far their only uses I found was scouting and blowing up undefended bridge. Even the smallest amount of enemy resistance leads to considerable losses.

I completely agree with the "knife" attack.
This special "Knife" attack is useless in the present state; on the contrary, it is a waste of resources. I don’t remember using it once, maybe at the very beginning to test it once...
I do not know to what extent this function can be moded (?)

How does exactly work the Special Ops trait ?

It uses the stats of the Commando Unit ?

The sneak attack should work as for torpedoes, cost nothing but be disabled for some turn after use

terminator wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:35 am How does exactly work the Special Ops trait ?

It uses the stats of the Commando Unit ?

The sneak attack should work as for torpedoes, cost nothing but be disabled for some turn after use.

I don't know the the mechanics behind but the attack is as weak as the normal attack, you are essentially paying to get no retaliation.
Still, won't do anything against a full efficiency unit, even Japanese citizen militias wipe the floor with them.

Epperaliant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:45 am I don't know the the mechanics behind but the attack is as weak as the normal attack, you are essentially paying to get no retaliation.
Still, won't do anything against a full efficiency unit, even Japanese citizen militias wipe the floor with them.

The only solution would be to increase the attack stats of the Commandos ?

terminator wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:51 am

Epperaliant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:45 am I don't know the the mechanics behind but the attack is as weak as the normal attack, you are essentially paying to get no retaliation.
Still, won't do anything against a full efficiency unit, even Japanese citizen militias wipe the floor with them.

The only solution would be to increase the attack stats of the Commandos ?

That would be a start, they are supposed to be highly trained soldiers and watching them trumped by civilian militia was beyond ridiculous.

I only use them to destroy very weakened units, destroy bridges, provide support to other attacking units or sometimes I send them for reconnaissance but with caution.

terminator wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:07 am I only use them to destroy very weakened units or destroy bridges...or sometimes I send them for reconnaissance but with caution.

Engineers are cheaper and have better attack.

Epperaliant wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:10 am

terminator wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:07 am I only use them to destroy very weakened units or destroy bridges...or sometimes I send them for reconnaissance but with caution.

Engineers are cheaper and have better attack.

But the Engineers have trouble moving far...

the special boat service is pretty useful in the new allied campaigns to take out flaks and artillery along the coast, in fact mandatory for the volturo line scenario along with the sas. once they hit 3-4 stars they dont need the knife attack anymore. i agree though that in their present state they are way too expensive.

the knife attack should be zero, should retreat at once and their vision radius should be expanded because once they are discovered they are dead.

The price could be fine but then they should have stats at least on par with regular infantry.

impossible wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:32 pm the knife attack should be zero, should retreat at once and their vision radius should be expanded because once they are discovered they are dead.

+1 to this idea. The Knife attack could be like placing a minefield where the unit moves one square after completing the task. Ideally, the Commando could use this movement to get outside of the view range of the victim, should it survive, thus enhancing its elusiveness. To compensate for eliminating the Prestige cost, the Knife attack could have a recharge time like 2 or 3 turns.

Rangers in Medjez el Bab :

i know that commandos' special ability is already extremely long but they should be longer to make special units become more useful.
Like enable the ability to sabotage, only making morale dmg and increasing supply needed. Run & gun: cause chip dmg then retreat to safe position. Place smaller mine: Just stop enemy, cause dmg to morale, but no dmg. Or the ability to increase dmg to soft target (truck, arty or such).
As my idea, they should be the best to sabotage behind enemy backline, scout or reduce enemy morale or supply.

They operate outside of own territory/supply, can not be seen and attacked by enemy mechanical units, arty, AT, bunkers and foxholes (unless spotted by another unit first), give 10 shock and can even attack without retaliation for meager 10RP. What's there not to like about them?

Sure, they are commandos and NOT frontline units...

I’ve said in the past and will say again, commandos are pretty good BUT they require planning to get value out of them. The big advantage is the ability to dump them wherever by sky (or in some cases boat) and have them spot stuff or kill arty/aa/bunkers in relative safety.

They’ll lose to infantry and armor and this is a good thing? It’d be really irritating to have an invisible highly effective combat unit that is only 2CP.

0 risk spotting and especially 0 risk damage on arty is extremely valuable when up against high damage high range German arty protected by heavy AA, especially in scenarios like the Tunisia one where there are multiple stacked together.

Also I’m fairly confident that it literally isn’t possible to get a major victory on Arakan in Burma Road without solid use of commandos to clear bunkers and arty in advance of maneuver units. Otherwise you end up too bogged down to make the incredibly strict timeline.

terminator wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:51 pm Rangers in Medjez el Bab :



Rangers.jpg

US Rangers are normal recruitable units and are quite effective. I believe this conversation is about the extra units that you can recruit with the UK specialization "Special Services" even though both can be considered commandos.

Rangers seem to be more than normal units, they are commandos :


PS: I hope we’ll have the pictures soon for The Unit Navigator Tool

Had a chance to try them in the Marines' campaign.

One positive note is that they cannot be spotted by stuff like fuel depots.
Wonder if it could work on bunkers too, they could be used to soften-up strongholds by chipping at them while you deal with other threats.

Epperaliant wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:40 pm Had a chance to try them in the Marines' campaign.

One positive note is that they cannot be spotted by stuff like fuel depots.
Wonder if it could work on bunkers too, they could be used to soften-up strongholds by chipping at them while you deal with other threats.

Spec Ops. cannot be spotted by bunkers or MG pillboxes.

Like said before - they are not standard frontline units. You must have a good point and a plan why and how to use them. Ideally you should conduct (air?) recon before their deployment behind enemy lines.