Slitherine

Hi there, long time no hear. Well, apart from me fanatically watching youtube videos of Soren and Goose

I just blitzed through the vanilla campaign with Chess mode on (no random numbers) and I think its worth discussing for Ultimate mode. My reasoning? Re-rolls.

Some things are still random (weather, heroes and chance for SE unit), but the damage output (and mitigation) are consistent. Chess mode on would require more experimentation with unit placement/upgrades/overstrength and positioning, rather than rerolling for a lucky streak.

High output/low incoming damage is basically a question of the available prestige pool (overstrenght, elite replacements), no? The way I look at dice rolls (and rerolling) is that it basically negates the prestige gains (Rommel), thus watering down the "Ultimate" tag.

And after watching literally hundreds of hours of YT action, I can safely say chess doesn't really take away anything from the game. After like turn 3 into most maps, it still requires backup plans, account for bad weather etc.

You raise a legitimate question. To be honest with you the rerolls and save scumming gets tiresome for me as well. It is so stinking hard to play Ultimate. I have been too afraid that playing on Chess or Limited Chess would account for too many losses...ie no lucky rolls. So many more units would get killed on Ultimate mode.

Are you saying you have found this not to be the case?

Also you would not be able to play the Armant way and go for Decisive's on every map, right?

I'm not competent enough to answer your question, but I can share my observations I collected up to this point.

1. The UI is not lying to you.
a) If it says zero casualties – it's zero casualties, even without full supression. Well, with the exception of rugged defence, which is still random.
b) If it says 4 kills, it's 4 kills. This enables you to "save" on artillery/strat bomber hits, since you can tell exactly how many damage points you need for a surrender.
c) Clouded weather - cloudy halves your airforce damage, but also incoming damage (thus completely negating the [1] many units have) and leaves your bombers with a clean 0 damage received. Being able to safely operate tactical bombers in cloudy I found was of great value, since stukas can still inflict 3-4 damage per hit on hard targets.
d) you can optimize surrender prestige. You won't just randomly kill a unit that might yield prestige from surrender.

2. Shifts emphasis from rolls to overstrength and experience star strategy.
You get to know, in time, the exact number of stars and overstrength needed to surrender or kill units. For example, if your PZIV D with 3 stars will always kill 6 strenght of infantry in open terrain, and the same tank with 12 strenght will always do 8 damage... combined that a 10.5mm artillery will always kill 3 and supress 3, you can "easily" calculate the exact moves needed for a desired result.
This is also true for air defense units. If you know that the AA will always kill off 8 points from a fighter, you can rely on it being adequate for strafer defence with zero causalties.

Personally, I found Limited Chess to be the best balance between both worlds... at least for me...

I have considered this. But I right away run into serious problems at Pozan. One short of killing the fighter. However, once over a few hurdles many possibilties open up. Having played more hours of Ultimate mode then is healthy, I spend way way too much time building the most insane strategic tactical sequences to cover my ass because I can low roll twice in a row. And that is for the simplest scenarios in 39.

The unreliability of rolls forces extreme creativity. Maps have been solved with such astounding brilliance even the great Manstein himself would bow in humility. That does appeal to my ego. The cost for this unprecedented brilliance is an appalling amount of man hours only the most unstable of individuals can pursue.

That being said the rerolls kill the fun. We Ultimate mode players spend way way too much time on it. I think there would be demand for live play no rerolls for Ulitmate mode. I bet map preparation time could be cut in half alone off that simple change.

I use dice chess, because it gives a limited randomness apart of the other random elements (sub evade, rugged defence), but still not the frustrating total randomness of the normal mode. Also, if you play a mod, where the high experience of the Axis units is important, than it is a benefit for the Axis side as loosing experienced units because of bad luck dice rolls can heavily influence the overall war/campaign.
As a bonus, dice chess can be also added to normal saved games as cheat (like to the historical Battlefield Europe mod saves).

Kirby wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:16 pm Hi there, long time no hear. Well, apart from me fanatically watching youtube videos of Soren and Goose

I just blitzed through the vanilla campaign with Chess mode on (no random numbers) and I think its worth discussing for Ultimate mode. My reasoning? Re-rolls.

Some things are still random (weather, heroes and chance for SE unit), but the damage output (and mitigation) are consistent. Chess mode on would require more experimentation with unit placement/upgrades/overstrength and positioning, rather than rerolling for a lucky streak.

High output/low incoming damage is basically a question of the available prestige pool (overstrenght, elite replacements), no? The way I look at dice rolls (and rerolling) is that it basically negates the prestige gains (Rommel), thus watering down the "Ultimate" tag.

And after watching literally hundreds of hours of YT action, I can safely say chess doesn't really take away anything from the game. After like turn 3 into most maps, it still requires backup plans, account for bad weather etc.

Uhu wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:45 am I use dice chess, because it gives a limited randomness apart of the other random elements (sub evade, rugged defence), but still not the frustrating total randomness of the normal mode. Also, if you play a mod, where the high experience of the Axis units is important, than it is a benefit for the Axis side as loosing experienced units because of bad luck dice rolls can heavily influence the overall war/campaign.
As a bonus, dice chess can be also added to normal saved games as cheat (like to the historical Battlefield Europe mod saves).

Uhu, how can I add dice chess, what is the code and how we use it?

Press Ctrl+Alt+Shift+C to enter a cheat code.
Than type "dice chess". Than Enter. I'm never sure, maybe "dicechess". It should be tested, which one.

faos333 wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 2:18 pm

Uhu wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:45 am I use dice chess, because it gives a limited randomness apart of the other random elements (sub evade, rugged defence), but still not the frustrating total randomness of the normal mode. Also, if you play a mod, where the high experience of the Axis units is important, than it is a benefit for the Axis side as loosing experienced units because of bad luck dice rolls can heavily influence the overall war/campaign.
As a bonus, dice chess can be also added to normal saved games as cheat (like to the historical Battlefield Europe mod saves).

Uhu, how can I add dice chess, what is the code and how we use it?

great thanks