Slitherine

Just a quick point:

Battgroup A - Spearmen facing down
Battlegroup B Longbows facing up

aaaa

""""""bbbb

There is half a base gap between the two battlegroups but BG A is'nt in front of BG B. Can the bows still claim 2 bases shooting I thought you had to be a slight overlap to allow this to happen.
Dave

david53 wrote:Just a quick point:

Battgroup A - Spearmen facing down
Battlegroup B Longbows facing up

aaaa

""""""bbbb

There is half a base gap between the two battlegroups but BG A is'nt in front of BG B. Can the bows still claim 2 bases shooting I thought you had to be a slight overlap to allow this to happen.
Dave

In the situation described, 1 base if Longbows are in effective range, 2 bases if outside effective range.

Whatever range, only 1 dice

Now riddle me this.....shift BG-A a little bit to the left - so it is no longer in arc of fire, but still within 4 MU of BG-B (so arguably still in effective range). Now introduce a new BG, BG-C. Place BG-C directly in front of BG-B at 4.1 MUs. So within arc, but outside of effective range. A paradox methinks?

So no dice? A BG within effective range but outside of arc > a BG within arc but outside of effective range?

Lycanthropic wrote:Now riddle me this.....shift BG-A a little bit to the left - so it is no longer in arc of fire, but still within 4 MU of BG-B (so arguably still in effective range). Now introduce a new BG, BG-C. Place BG-C directly in front of BG-B at 4.1 MUs. So within arc, but outside of effective range. A paradox methinks?

So no dice? A BG within effective range but outside of arc > a BG within arc but outside of effective range?

Put a BG 0.001 MU behind the shooters. they are even closer but still out of arc. Not much of a riddle.

What has it got in its pocketses my percious?...

In your second scenario you shoot at long range dead ahead - not sure I see what the issue is.

Si

I guess the million dollar question is can you shoot at long range if you cannot shoot at effective range?
The rules state you cannot shoot at long range if you have an enemy BG in effective range....be nice if it said a legal target in effective range which includes arc of fire....but I cannot find anything about effective range other than a chart with MU distances. Is an enemy BG in combat behind you within a 4MU direct line within effective range? Therefore eliminating your ability to shoot at long range ahead? Common sense would say no.
One particular example would be a friendly LF BG in column directly to the front of your own MF Bw BG getting in the way of effective range shooting but not long range...

If your target is out of arc then your fire is not going to be effective no matter what the range. In other words effective range implies within arc of fire.

I guess the million dollar question is can you shoot at long range if you cannot shoot at effective range?
The rules state you cannot shoot at long range if you have an enemy BG in effective range....be nice if it said a legal target in effective range which includes arc of fire....but I cannot find anything about effective range other than a chart with MU distances. Is an enemy BG in combat behind you within a 4MU direct line within effective range? Therefore eliminating your ability to shoot at long range ahead? Common sense would say no.
One particular example would be a friendly LF BG in column directly to the front of your own MF Bw BG getting in the way of effective range shooting but not long range...

Page 81 target priorities. The ones at long range are defined as your target priority under those bullets.

Si

Lycanthropic wrote:I guess the million dollar question is can you shoot at long range if you cannot shoot at effective range?
The rules state you cannot shoot at long range if you have an enemy BG in effective range....be nice if it said a legal target in effective range which includes arc of fire....but I cannot find anything about effective range other than a chart with MU distances. Is an enemy BG in combat behind you within a 4MU direct line within effective range? Therefore eliminating your ability to shoot at long range ahead? Common sense would say no.
One particular example would be a friendly LF BG in column directly to the front of your own MF Bw BG getting in the way of effective range shooting but not long range...

You need to go back and re-read, carefully, what the rules say about ranges and arcs . They do NOT state "you cannot shoot at long range if you have an enemy BG in effective range"

Thanks guys,

Although page 82 states that your arc of fire is:-
2 base widths if no base of the shooting group is in effective range of that enemy battle group.

What I missed was the importantance of the "subject to target priority" clause.
I have had a few bizarre shooting circumstances recently where my bowman have had enemy which could have been shot at long-range arc, but not effective range arc. Because the enemy was within 4MU my opponent argued that arc of fire point on pg82, followed up by the second diagram on pg83 really nailed it. In my example - look at the second diagram on page 83, I had a BG of friendly LF right in front of enemy battlegroup A. So my Bow could not draw arc of fire at 4MU, but could at 6MU.

Good that the problem is solved

Simon

Lycanthropic wrote:Thanks guys,

Although page 82 states that your arc of fire is:-
2 base widths if no base of the shooting group is in effective range of that enemy battle group.

What I missed was the importantance of the "subject to target priority" clause.
I have had a few bizarre shooting circumstances recently where my bowman have had enemy which could have been shot at long-range arc, but not effective range arc. Because the enemy was within 4MU my opponent argued that arc of fire point on pg82, followed up by the second diagram on pg83 really nailed it. In my example - look at the second diagram on page 83, I had a BG of friendly LF right in front of enemy battlegroup A. So my Bow could not draw arc of fire at 4MU, but could at 6MU.

That bottom diagram is a bit confusing in that the "Range more than 4 MUs" should be drawn to BG A, not B.

The presence of friendly (to the shooter) LF in front of A would not affect the arcs from the left hand BG. If A was slightly further away so only the front rank was within 4 MU and the LF blocked the LOS from the middle shooter to the front target base, but not to the rear target base, then you would have 1 shot at long range from the middle base on that rear base as it is within the 1-base arc. The left hand shooter is still out of arc.