Slitherine

As the English 1155-1271AD, I played the Scots 1162-1319AD under control of the AI. I just barely won 56-63. Playing the AI, I almost always win and losses of 20% would be considered high. 4-5% losses not unusual. So this was a very tough battle and luck was about average outside of maybe some chain morale failures.

The Scots had masses of those HI offensive spears with 2 knights, a few bows, a few Isleman and mediums. I had 8 knights, 2 sergeants, 3 bows, 3 light bows, 3 Welsh MI, 2 armored spears, 1 defensive spear, 2 raw spears and 1 medium infantry approximately.

The battlefield was all open and no terrain, including rough, played a role. So the Scots spears just rolled right over my infantry even though my 2 sergeants were interspersed with my infantry line to break up the Scots assault. My bows were interspersed with my knights and one in the infantry line. They did contribute by disrupting one, maybe two off spear units which were finished off by knights but in general were not worth the points. My knights won the battle by breaking one flank, taking out bows, one knight, some mediums, Islemen and a few off spears. Some sympathetic morale failures of off spear units helped substantially. Still very, very tough battle against the AI and I strongly suspect I would have lost badly against a human.

So first question is what is the best tactical approach and army makeup for taking on a Scot army in the open with those masses of HI offensive spears. It seems bows are not the answer. They just don't produce enough disruptions to justify their cost. It seemed the only units that performed well were my knights but it felt like luck played a role in terms of chain morale failures.

And my second question, are the Scots 1162-1319AD army better than the English 1155-1271AD army in a straight up open terrain battle? I think they might be.

I will be playing Scots 1162-1319 AD w/Scots(Isles & Highlands) 1015-1319 AD ally in the WTC. They have a good combined-arms army, but are low on mounted troops. An enemy mounted flank sweep is difficult to neutralize, but it has to be done for survival. Both the Scots Schiltons and Highlanders are good units, but struggle with Superior enemy foot. I would always be happy to fight a contemporary English army.

Yes, some of the Scots lists are very good. You get a great variety of infantry. The Scots Spear are quite fearsome with deep ranks. Unlike the Welsh Spear, they are heavy foot. Highlanders are impact foot. Islemen at 39 have the heavy weapon. Even those Galwegian Foot units at 33 are impact foot.

As Michael says, main weakness is lack of cavalry and trying to protect your flanks.

A much more closely balanced and interesting historical matchup are the Scots (Isles and Highlanders) vs the regular Scots. The Isles and Highlanders lack cavalry and IMO are not quite in the same league as the regular Scots as they lack the deep offensive spears. Still that matchup produces a reasonably competitive and interesting battle.

I would always be happy to fight a contemporary English army.

Yes, I think that is about right. Although historically, I don't think the Scots had that big an advantage over the English.

Jagger2002 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:57 pm A much more closely balanced and interesting historical matchup are the Scots (Isles and Highlanders) vs the regular Scots. The Isles and Highlanders lack cavalry and IMO are not quite in the same league as the regular Scots as they lack the deep offensive spears. Still that matchup produces a reasonably competitive and interesting battle.

I would always be happy to fight a contemporary English army.

Yes, I think that is about right. Although historically, I don't think the Scots had that big an advantage over the English.

I've played about 10 mirrored matches of Scots vs English, 6 during the beta and 4 after release, and I consider it to be a well balanced encounter. The Scots can really suffer if they get outflanked, which is difficult to prevent due to a lack of cavalry. A lot of their missile troops are non-light, and vulnerable to getting charged down by knights in the open. Yes, 54pt Scottish Spearmen will eventually grind down 36pt Defensive Spearmen, due to the Combat Strength Modifier - but replicate that points difference across the line and the English player will have even more to work with along the flanks. The Scots do very well on a constrained battlefield, the English do better with room to maneuver. Here are my 4 post-beta games:

https://youtu.be/hmCjH3byrDs
https://youtu.be/_4eiRu9gCHg
https://youtu.be/tOz61FnxE9A
https://youtu.be/2TzjcXhZF1I

The Scots can really suffer if they get outflanked, which is difficult to prevent due to a lack of cavalry.

In this particular late matchup, the Scots had access to 4 knights and actually brought along 2 knights. 1 of those knights significantly contributed to destroying my infantry line. Of course, the English can bring along a lot more.

A lot of their missile troops are non-light, and vulnerable to getting charged down by knights in the open.

Which is exactly what happened but the same happened to two of my three formed bow units except they were overrun by the off spears. The bows can be useful in producing a disrupt in the deep off spears which creates a weak point but considering the off spears can form square, it felt like the contribution was not worth the points.

The Scots do very well on a constrained battlefield, the English do better with room to maneuver.

In my game, the battlefield was constrained. Even though all combat was in open terrain, the field was anchored by a pond on the English side and a forest/hill on the Scots side. All fighting occurred between those two anchors.

One of my concerns after the battle was perhaps I wasn't using the English army properly or did not choose the proper army composition. Sounds like the reason for my difficulty may have been simply not a good battlefield for the English. I always enjoy watching your youtube videos, so I will definitely watch those 4 matchups over the next few days.