Slitherine

My interest is piqued by the release of PC2 and seeing all the review videos for it. I have never played PC1 or PC2, or even the old Panzer General games.

Am thinking of taking the plunge into the PC series, but which is the better game: PC1 Gold Edition (which seems to have every DLC included), or the newest PC2?

I'm guessing it's a slightly unfair comparison, because PC1 Gold has 8 years of DLC content baked in, so gameplay hours and content aside, which is the actual better (more fun) game to play? Which game really makes you feel like a true Panzer commander in the thick of battle?

I've read a lot of mixed opinions on PC2, with posters in this sub and on Steam saying the gameplay and rules were actually much better in PC1, and PC2 is much more arcade-y and plays too much like Order of Battle.

Having played neither game though, I really have no idea.Tweakbox Appvalley https://vlc.onl

We all lurved dear old PC1 but i always found its graphics were a little dull and eventually drifted away from it and bought PC2 with it's more colourful snazzy graphics, and PC2 has become one of the very few games on my hard drive which I regularly play..
PC1 was like a ladyfriend I once had who was nice but always wore awful oldfashioned dull clothes and hideous flat shoes, I suggested she should jazz herself up a bit with colourful clothes and stylish heels but she yelled "I'm not going to look like a trollop for you!" so I drifted away from her and we parted.
Pity because I was planning to get her a Wonder Woman outfit..

It depends a lot on your preferences.

PC2 uses a modern 3D engine, and thus has quite impressive system-requirements, especially compared to PC1. You'd have to check how well your computer stacks up to that.

The rules are much better in PC2, mostly because they have taken those of PC1 and added pieces that were missing in that game. I really have no idea why anyone would suggest that the rules in PC1 were better, as PC2 has more or less refined them and thus made things better. You now have means to encircle troops and cause supply issues, recon units and anti-tank units are also more valuable now, as they give other units combat-bonuses or give support-fire against tanks, respectively. Those units were often quite useless in PC1 but have a valid role now. Retreats are also handled better now, no more units surrendering because all the hexes behind it were blocked. Now units with enough movement points can retreat as far as their movement points can take them.

PC2 is also much more customizable in terms of rules. The number of difficulty-levels are the same, but you have much more options in addition to that. There are also general traits and a new hero system, which can act as buffer or malus, depending on how you choose, or you can just ignore that stuff and play without it. Almost everything is optional and can be set in any way the player likes.

I love the gameplay in both games, but that is really something you would have to find out for yourself. Beyond the things I have mentioned above, there are the following things to consider:

PC1:
- obviously a much bigger set of missions available right now due to all the released DLCs. Though PC2 will obviously catch up to that or even surpass it eventually. This also means that you can play till the "end" in PC1, while you won't be able to do that in PC2 yet.
- PC1 also has quite a bit more mods available, if you are looking for even more content. Due to the nature of the engine, some brilliant mods won't be available for PC2. There is one that has a large map of Europe, and deals with the war from the start of Barbarossa, taking the originally tactical game to a more strategic level, but the map-size is so large that it wouldn't work on PC2.

PC2:
- a wider range in terms of mission design. The DLCs have tried out plenty of new stuff. Not everything worked out great, but that's what happens when you go and try stuff.
- the above has been an issue for some players. The first DLC sees you operate with no infantry (apart from the first and last mission, and some auxiliary troops you can buy). Those are handled by a seperate Spanish AI commander. It works relatively well once you get used to it, but it can also be quit annoying at times, when the units don't stick to what you had in mind. This only happens in the first DLC though, afterwards you will always be able to use all units you want to.
- you will however still encounter allied armies of yours, but those largely operate without you and don't need your help beyond some air support.
-The DLC's so far are also a bit more story-driven than the ones of PC1

Both games took some historic liberties, but they are just games after all.

They are both great games. If you would definately only ever buy one of them, I don't know which I would recommend. Though if you would consider buying the other part if you liked the one you bought, I'd probably start with PC1 and then go to PC2 afterwards, as going from the improved ruleset to the old one can be a bit annoying

I loved them both, grab the first then the second as it's hard to "go back" in my opinion.

There is another option, which I discovered while waiting for the next PC2 patch. I'd actually found my Steam key for PC1 and was about to go start up the GC 39 campaign but I found that I just couldn't go back, since I realized how much I really enjoyed all the new features in PC2. In the Steam Workshop (and also here in the Scenario Design section) there is a rework of the PC1 GC (currently up to GC 42) for running in PC2 and I thought I'd give it a ago. I'm glad I did! I'm currently going though GC 39 and really enjoying how it works with all the PC2 features as well as enjoying going back to those old battles I slogged through but in a new way. To me this gives you the best of both worlds, but if course YMMV.

Both are great games and worth playing!

PC2 pros:
- better graphics and visuals
- way higher replayabiity due to tons of options to alter gameplay and difficulty
- hero system
- more (and better) rules
- feels way more strategic than the first one, if you try to play pc2 like you played pc1, you will fail miserably (at least i did)

PC2 cons:
- sound is sometimes "wierd"
- not finished yet (year 1942 was the last grand campaign dlc)
- feels a little to multiplayer oriented
- some missions in the DLCs are not working as intended (doable, but kinda unfun atm) right now, but a fix is in the works
I just mention this ,because if you buy the game and play hardcore fast, you might reach those missions before the fix
- no debriefings in the base game! I.e. there is completly no diffrence between winning or loosing the last mission (Berlin), the game is just over

But as mentioned, both are really good games, i have spend hundreds of hours in PC2 so far and even longer in PC1.

RoshaBeli wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:52 am My interest is piqued by the release of PC2 and seeing all the review videos for it. I have never played PC1 or PC2, or even the old Panzer General games.

Am thinking of taking the plunge into the PC series, but which is the better game: PC1 Gold Edition (which seems to have every DLC included), or the newest PC2?

I'm guessing it's a slightly unfair comparison, because PC1 Gold has 8 years of DLC content baked in, so gameplay hours and content aside, which is the actual better (more fun) game to play? Which game really makes you feel like a true Panzer commander in the thick of battle?

I've read a lot of mixed opinions on PC2, with posters in this sub and on Steam saying the gameplay and rules were actually much better in PC1, and PC2 is much more arcade-y and plays too much like Order of Battle.

Having played neither game though, I really have no idea.

Just buy PC2. You will be able to play all the PC1 DLC's on our PC2 Mod. You can get the mod from this forum.

Edmon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:58 am I loved them both, grab the first then the second as it's hard to "go back" in my opinion.

My thoughts exactly! Start with PC1 while it's cheap, and while you can still enjoy it because you won't know what you're missing from PC2. Then, if you really liked it, you know it's safe to splurge on PC2. It will also allow more time for a few more PC2 DLCs to be released so you won't be biting at the bit waiting like the rest of us currently are!

PzC1 is more classic turn based strategy war game. You really need to think about your tactics, and study the map of each mission. It is much more challenging compared to PzC2. It is also a complete game, you can play the German campaign, Soviet campaign, and US campaign. You can also find some high quality mods on this forum. But the graphic is outdated, and it doesn't have many customization option.

PzC2 is of course better looking. It has much more customization options, you can really tune the game to best fit your taste. One of the biggest selling points of PzC2 is its hero system. It is complex, but also very fun to play with. Although personally, I think it makes the game less challenging. It is not a complete game, there are still many dlcs coming, but it doesn't mean you don't have fun with the current game. It is also more pricy, but I guess that's the problem for all Slitherine games.

RoshaBeli wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:52 am I've read a lot of mixed opinions on PC2, with posters in this sub and on Steam saying the gameplay and rules were actually much better in PC1, and PC2 is much more arcade-y and plays too much like Order of Battle.

That's a contradiction right there. Order of Battle is anything but arcadey. PzC2 is less hardcore than OoB and PzC1 but way more modern-designed, better interface, smoother gameplay.

Regarding PC2, I'm totally hooked on its random mission generator and rarely play campaigns.
I can't remember if PC1 had a generator too.

Xenos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:43 pm
PzC2 is less hardcore than OoB and PzC1

Well, thats more a question of personal preferences and difficulty settings. You can tune up the "hardcoreness" that you literally have to think over every single move for minutes. So yes, base difficulty settings and without any special challenges and negative traits, its not that "hardcore", but thats the big difrence, you can spice that up to insane difficulty levels, if you want to.

Btw. i never considered PC1 that hardcore.

Panzer Corps 2 can definitely be the most difficult game out there, if you tune it enough.

I am pretty confident that beating the game with -all- the challenges and negative traits on is impossible.

I certainly enjoyed PC2 over PC1...however with one exception.

The PC1 mod... Legacy of Versaille (LOV)...was for me the best German WW2 grand campaign experience to date.

The ahistorical play thru of 70 or so scenarios each of epic proportions...well...you'll understand the meaning of battle fatigue and come away with a real sense satisfaction upon completion of that grand campaign.

The PC2 DLC's that have been released with the anticipation of a full campaign experience still to come...are head and shoulders above the PC1 grand campaign package.

I played PZC1 for years (mainly in multiplayer) and it was great game of its time. As for the missions, I always liked to play them at one go ( I mean I started the game many times but didnt continue it from a saved place if I was defeated). So, I am just waiting PCZ2 whole "Grand Campaign" to be published (which is keeping about the half this time), cos I wouldn't like to play it only till the half of the war and then waiting a year to end it
If I were new to this game I would buy PZC1 on a good sale (I think it is available nowadays about 90% cheaper than the original price) and played the grand campaigns till pzc2 campaigns will be available.
On the other hand, its a relatively old game now, so watch some video if you are interested in it. The game itself is quite nice and I liked is graphics and mechanics also but now is a bit dusty in comparing with the new one.
If PCZ2 is not enogh also an option some new title like Unity of Command2 or the Strategic Mind series.

Xenos wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:43 pm better interface, smoother gameplay.

???

Better interface? Strongly disagree there. PzC1 might not have been perfect, but it still did a much better job of conveying information unobtrusively than the sequel.

Somebody suggested Order of Battle (OOB) is a lot like PC2 and I'd agree, but I drifted away from OOB myself for two reasons- firstly it doesn't have a random mission generator, and secondly the artillery in OOB doesn't provide automatic fire support for units under attack.

PC1 has one quality that PC2 couldn't get at the moment ,it is the possibility to play huge maps, like in european MOD of McGuba : more than 1000 units on the same map.

boredatwork wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:03 pm ??? Better interface? Strongly disagree there. PzC1 might not have been perfect, but it still did a much better job of conveying information unobtrusively than the sequel.

Yes, I don't play PC2 for this.
Please put PC2 in PC1 2D engine...

ErissN6 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:26 pm

boredatwork wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:03 pm ??? Better interface? Strongly disagree there. PzC1 might not have been perfect, but it still did a much better job of conveying information unobtrusively than the sequel.

Yes, I don't play PC2 for this.
Please put PC2 in PC1 2D engine...

The first part is a roll, the second, alas, is lame )