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AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:39 pm
by Catacol
AA doubles up as AT, sometimes to devastating effect. But not so for the T90 or the GAZ. They are classified as tanks. I've posted this in the bug thread but thought I'd ask the community the question as well. Anyone know why? The T90 can serve as a tank in desperate times - but the GAZ? Ummmm - no.
Is it a bug? Why is all other AA convertible to AT but not these 2 Russian vehicles?
Re: AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:49 pm
by Stormchaser
I think it's intended.
As for why Tanks?
Well, I belive it has to do with their main guns. Both the Gaz and the T-90 are armed with machine guns, which while capable of shooting down aircraft are very poor weapons against tanks. So making them AT guns doesn't really fit.
Ultimately, Tank is the best fit after that, as a self-propelled vehicle that can fight against Infantry.
Re: AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:50 pm
by jeannot le lapin
USA:
Sherman Skink: Anti-air, Alternate Tank
Re: AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:44 pm
by VirgilInTheSKY
Another interesting one is the Vickers AA, while also armed with machineguns, this one switches to AT, not tank like the GAZ-AA.
Re: AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:41 pm
by Stormchaser
The Sherman Skink, while armed with 20mm guns, was a late war development, by which time lighter AT guns had pretty much become obsolete in the face of the heavier armor of late war tanks, so it still makes sense to not become an AT vehicle with an ineffective weapon for the job.
I have no idea how to explain the Vickers AA. It has Machine Guns, early war, and yet becomes an AT.
Re: AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:53 am
by PoorOldSpike
Catacol wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:39 pm
AA doubles up as AT, sometimes to devastating effect. But not so for the T90 or the GAZ. They are classified as tanks..
Their popguns hitting power against Hard targets in Tank mode (below) can barely scratch the paintwork of enemy tanks, so best use them against infantry, trucks, light armour etc.
T-90 = 10
GAZ = 7
For the record here are the Russian AA units ratings against Hard targets when switched to AT mode-
85mm = 25
Yag = 24
SU-11 = 23
SU-6 = 18
37mm = 14
37ZIS = 14
M17 = 10
For comparison these are the ratings of some tanks against Hard targets-
JS-3 = 32
T-34/85 = 25
T-34/43 = 21
T-26 = 13
T-60 = 10
Noob note- don't worry too much if an enemy ground unit catches your AA unit with its pants down in AA mode, because it'll still be able to defend itself, but at reduced firepower.
Example- the 85 in AA mode defends itself at 14 against a Hard attacker, so the morale is that if enemy tanks are getting close to your AA units and you want to stand your ground, switch to AT mode while you still can, and the 85 will be able to hit with a rating of 25..
Re: AA as AT - what about the GAZ and T90?
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:07 pm
by Catacol
PoorOldSpike wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:53 am
Catacol wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:39 pm
AA doubles up as AT, sometimes to devastating effect. But not so for the T90 or the GAZ. They are classified as tanks..
Their popguns hitting power against Hard targets in Tank mode (below) can barely scratch the paintwork of enemy tanks, so best use them against infantry, trucks, light armour etc.
T-90 = 10
GAZ = 7
For the record here are the Russian AA units ratings against Hard targets when switched to AT mode-
85mm = 25
Yag = 24
SU-11 = 23
SU-6 = 18
37mm = 14
37ZIS = 14
M17 = 10
For comparison these are the ratings of some tanks against Hard targets-
JS-3 = 32
T-34/85 = 25
T-34/43 = 21
T-26 = 13
T-60 = 10
Noob note- don't worry too much if an enemy ground unit catches your AA unit with its pants down in AA mode, because it'll still be able to defend itself, but at reduced firepower.
Example- the 85 in AA mode defends itself at 14 against a Hard attacker, so the morale is that if enemy tanks are getting close to your AA units and you want to stand your ground, switch to AT mode while you still can, and the 85 will be able to hit with a rating of 25..
Agreed on power, but not necessarily on use. Playing on big multiplayer maps of 80 x 80 (for example) and force sizes up over 400 slots per side means that mobile units are widespread. As a result unlike on small maps where no player would ever advance with armoured cars or light tanks, there are frequent cases in games I design where 8 wheeled ACs or T60s or any of the faster, light units try to penetrate flanks or surround formations. In these circumstances AA as AT has value in protecting infantry. Germany can do it with all their 20mm and 37mm pieces of kit but a Russian player cannot do it with any of the self propelled units and that is a disadvantage. It must just be an oversight in game design, because I can't see any real reason why these 2 Russian units would have been singled out.