Slitherine

The FOG2 World Team Championship: rules of competition

(The rules are customized Digital League rules)

This is a team competition, so it is the responsibility of the team captain to make sure that all players adhere to the rules. Also, one or more players in a team to help their colleagues with being able to understand the rules.
There is always unforeseen circumstance which may prevent you from finishing games. However, entering this competition means that you will complete all games. Failure to do so will not only affect you but your whole team.

The organisers will assume that everyone read these rules and that all the points contained within it are fully understood.
Please make sure you are allowing notifications to be sent to your email address

The organisers will intervene on the basis of these rules where necessary. If you should need clarification on anything then please ask by posting your question in "X" thread or by sending a PM to XLegione or myself.

1. Periods

Each team will have 4 players each player plays in a specific period. The WTC will consist of 4 periods.
Player 1 – Period 1 - 600 BC to 100 BC
Player 2 – Period 2 - 99 BC to 499 AD
Player 3 – Period 3 - 500 AD to 1010 AD
Player 4 – Period 4 - 1011 AD to 1300 AD

Each player will play one game against all the other players in their period and in the same group.

Each player will remain in the same period throughout.

The same army with ally is used throughout the competition.

Any eventuality not covered by these rules will be subject to adjudication by the organisers. The adjudication panel currently consists of Triarii, Xlegione (Stefano) and eric

2. Joining the WTC and selecting your armies

All players are welcome. Each player chooses an army with or without an ally for each of the periods. They will not be able to use the same army or nation in the next WTC. All players in each period can use the same army

3. Participation in the WTC

It is expected that players will complete all their games. We expect all players to play fairly and by the rules. If one player is not doing so, it will affect his score but also his whole team. If a player is unable to continue, make sure you have at least 1 reserve or we would hopefully be able to find a replacement. It is expected that players will complete all their fixtures. Those who do not may be excluded from subsequent WTC tournaments.

Players must register one result within two weeks of each group stage game or they may be replaced by a player from the reserve list. Once more the captain must make sure this happens

3a). Role of the reserves

The players choose which reserves from their country are allocated to which teams.

In cases where some teams may have no reserves. The "additional reserves" will be allocated to teams as soon as the recruitment phase is over.

If reserves replace a team member, they must use the army and allies specified. The organisers need to also be notified immediately.

The captain has overall responsibility for all team members, including all reserves. He can use the reserves as he sees fit. That is the possibility for all team members to play.

4. Games

Either player may initiate a game by posting a challenge in the appropriate thread in the competition forum and by sending a PM to their opponent.
All games will select "Open Battle" for the scenario type. All battles will use 1200-point armies’, players will choose a “Medium" army and a “Medium" battlefield, Potluck terrain and 24 turns

If a game is set-up incorrectly for any reason, then it must be re-started as soon as possible.

Both players must agree to re-start a game within the first three turns if they believe the terrain is likely to produce a sterile game or a draw. The maximum number of re-starts permitted for a single game is two.

Reporting the result of a game is the responsibility of the winning player. If you are a losing player and notice that the result has not been posted after three days, you should post the result yourself. The team captain will also be responsible.

4a. Group Stage and Knock out rounds.

There will be a random draw made for the group stage.

There are 3 games to play for each player in the group stage. Each game is 2 weeks in length.

There will be 6 groups of 4, no group will contain 2 or more of the same nation. The 1st, 2nd and 4 teams with the best scores in 3rd spot will go through to the 1st round, QF, SF and Final.
The remaining teams will enter the “complimentary” QF, SF and Final
For the 1st round, QF and SF, games will be pre-determined based on positions in group stage.

5. Winning Group and KO points

Points will be awarded as follows . . .

4 points - for a win where the losing player has not scored 50% or more
3 points - for a marginal win where the losing player has scored 50% or more
2 points - for a tie where both players score 60% or more, or for a draw where a player has scored at least 25%
1 point - for a marginal defeat where the losing player has scored 50% or more
0 points - where a player has not scored 25% or more

To win a game a player must always “rout” the opponent’s army. A "rout" occurs when an army breaks and 60% of its original troops are routed or dispersed, or if 40-59% of its original troops are routed or dispersed and the opponent has lost at least 25% less.

A draw will occur where neither army has broken by the game turn limit (24 turns), or at any point in the game by agreement between the two players.

If two or more teams finish on the same number of points at the end of the group or KO stage, the team with the most wins will be placed higher in the table or will have won. In the group stage, if two or more teams have the same number of wins then the results of the games between those two or more teams will determine the final positions in the group table. Where these results still do not separate the teams, the team with the better score difference/aggregate will be higher in the table or wins. If there is still a tie, a toss of a coin will decide.


6. Player etiquette and withdrawal from the league

Please treat organisers and other players in the way that you would wish to be treated yourself. Please visit the Field of Glory 2 forum regularly and log in to see if there are any messages for you. Make sure you have your notifications on. Try to respond to communications as quickly as you can and once you have started a game play at a regular pace so it can be completed within a reasonable timespan. It is expected that each group stage game will be completed within 2 weeks of their starting date and 2 weeks for KO games. Games that are not completed within the specified time will be adjudicated by the organisers. We would require screenshots for this.

Please do not resign a game if you are less than 15% behind your opponent. Failure to follow this rule may affect your future entry rights.

Please notify the tournament organisers if you are unable to contact an opponent to start a game after 4 days (96 hours) have elapsed.

If your opponent has not moved at all for 4 days (96 hours) without explanation, then you are entitled to claim the game automatically by using the multi-player in-game facility provided and contacting the organiser with the proof required.

If you wish to resign from the WTC, or if you will not have time to finish all of your games, please notify your captain and tournament organisers as soon as possible. Hopefully, your team or the organisers will have a reserve player who can start immediately. If you have not completed any games in the group stage your record will be removed completely.

I have never met one of these corner sitters and if I did I would regard it as as a challenge where they are giving me the initiative and allowing me to win. OK I played one game where my opponent setup on a hill with woods at the side and I had an Armenian army. What did I do? Moved the cataphracts through the woods where my opponent couldn't see them, finally ending up in his rear and winning the game on the final turn. There's always a tactical solution to a problem, like bringing lots of firepower if you think your opponent is going to sit on a hill, and shooting him off it. I tried in a tournament game to setup an artillery redoubt on a hill but my opponent simply went around it. If you are complaining about defensive behaviour then it's your own lack of imagination and aggression that you are complaining about - or is it your army choice that has few options as far as terrain use is concerned? Try a different army. Field of Glory rewards aggressive play.

ericdoman1 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:14 am I have played many many many TT tournament games and yes players could be very defensive and or slow. As there is limited time involved, I wouldn't say draws were common but compared to FOG I and FOG II digital, very very common. Also in many TT tournaments, you'd probably end up scoring points even if nothing happened. At least in FOG II digital tournaments, there is an adjudication process and we will include one in WTC. Also being incredibly defensive means that both players may well score <10 points, which could be disastrous. I believe/hope that WTC II (2022)scoring system and rules will be very similar to Slitherine tournament rules, as used in Byzantium Endures etc

I didn't understand your reply, but I still advise that using a tournament scoring system to disincentivize bad play is good for all participants.

w_michael - We will make a decision if needs be

Vakarr - exactly

vakarr wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:51 am I have never met one of these corner sitters and if I did I would regard it as as a challenge where they are giving me the initiative and allowing me to win.

I am not a tournament player, preferring MP games with friends. Let me pass on what a very good FOG2 DL player said to me recently:

There is a significant portion of the player base that sees nothing wrong with the DBA equivalent of sitting on the baseline with forests all around and not moving as an acceptable tournament strategy and an ethos which is OK with ruining everyone’s chances by occupying fortresses positions at the start and be perfectly willing to play for a draw. It made competitive play for me an exercise in frustration. I spent many a game where I effectively was digging people out of trenches all the time while racing against the 24 turn limit clock. Many players were playing a game of chicken with respect of threatening a draw to sink both of our chances to win the tournament only to have their opponent relent and attack into exceptionally unfavourable terrain to try for a result and be punished and the camper be rewarded. I vividly recall in one thread how a player outright said that they were willing to do this and the tournament director said it was perfectly fair play. Myself and several other player expressed bewilderment at how anyone in a tournament setting could be incentivized to not win.

I have occasionally encountered a similar attitude in miniatures tournament play, so I am not surprised that it can be found in digital play. Our solution was to score an incomplete game as a loss for both sides. When you point this out during face-to-face play then they usually say that they didn't realize that and they adjust their play style. One man's meat is another man's poison, I guess.


By the way, what happened to my initial post and ericdoman1's first response?

Hi Michael

I moved the post to Archives. It is a question that has been asked since time immemorial with reference to wargames.

I have played over 500 tournament/competition, Ancient games. That includes TT and FOG I and II digital. Only in the FOG II campaign games I am playing has players sat back and defended. That is because all they need is a draw, they will gain no extra points for winning. Although I intend to change that.

Bottom line is nothing can be done about it.

Cheers

Eric

It is expected that each group stage game will be completed within 2 weeks of their starting date and 2 weeks for KO games. Games that are not completed within the specified time will be adjudicated by the organisers. We would require screenshots for this.

Will players be allowed any time extension if games in the first two rounds of the group stage are not completed within the 2 weeks ?
Are you going to take into account elapsed play time for adjudications, I think that is how it works in the DL. If not there is the possibility that a player either because they were too busy or maybe if they had a difficult match up could play slowly and score a draw. Given the way the scoring works a draw could be a very good result in the knock out stages - am not saying anyone would do this but if you had say 3 even match up and one that looked very tough then a no score draw in the tough one would be a result.

Just wanting to confirm that this is like the DL where the casualty percentages at the top left of the screen is what is used to determine point scoring and not the final results page at the end of the battle.

by SpeedyCM » 20 Sep 2021 11:42

Just wanting to confirm that this is like the DL where the casualty percentages at the top left of the screen is what is used to determine point scoring and not the final results page at the end of the battle

Yes absolutely correct - just like Pete's system for the DL.

So the example in the screenshot below would be a Period 1 Game and would be reported

Round ?
Period 1
Player A loss 61 vs Player B loss 57


And the scoring in the tables would be

Player B's team 3 points for marginal win Loss 57 Caused 61 Diff +4

Player A's team 1 point for marginal defeat Loss 61 Caused 57 Diff -4

tyronec wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:37 am

It is expected that each group stage game will be completed within 2 weeks of their starting date and 2 weeks for KO games. Games that are not completed within the specified time will be adjudicated by the organisers. We would require screenshots for this.

Will players be allowed any time extension if games in the first two rounds of the group stage are not completed within the 2 weeks ?
Are you going to take into account elapsed play time for adjudications, I think that is how it works in the DL. If not there is the possibility that a player either because they were too busy or maybe if they had a difficult match up could play slowly and score a draw. Given the way the scoring works a draw could be a very good result in the knock out stages - am not saying anyone would do this but if you had say 3 even match up and one that looked very tough then a no score draw in the tough one would be a result.

Hi TC

Apologies for delay but didn't receive any notifications. See 6. of the rules. In the Slitherine tournaments 2 games have to be completed in 2 weeks. It is rare for players to receive the 150 points. Yes the WTC is different but if a player pms us based on 6. in the rules and or the opponent is very slow without any explanation or a late explanation. These factors will aid in our adjudications. Also if players are downloading multiple times during a game this will be noted

Just finished my third round game, with a victory over corner sitting. My opponent stayed on his hill so I had to come at him. My cavalry didn't do so well on my right flank but rallied enough to keep me in the game. On my left flank, my opponent's unwillingness to come off his hill allowed me plenty of time to move up my infantry in refused flank formation and try to get around his flank. There was a built up area at the end of his line that held me up a bit, but it eventually worked. I had to charge uphill with one of my pike phalanxes but it was the corner of the hill I hit so the enemy unit didn't receive any support and was beaten. My opponent just kept retreating onto his hill as I advanced, it was a classic case of surrendering the initiative to your opponent, allowing your opponent to move into a preferred attack formation, and showing why corner sitting doesn't work. You must attack and have a plan of attack.

vakarr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:22 am Just finished my third round game, with a victory over corner sitting. My opponent stayed on his hill so I had to come at him. My cavalry didn't do so well on my right flank but rallied enough to keep me in the game. On my left flank, my opponent's unwillingness to come off his hill allowed me plenty of time to move up my infantry in refused flank formation and try to get around his flank. There was a built up area at the end of his line that held me up a bit, but it eventually worked. I had to charge uphill with one of my pike phalanxes but it was the corner of the hill I hit so the enemy unit didn't receive any support and was beaten. My opponent just kept retreating onto his hill as I advanced, it was a classic case of surrendering the initiative to your opponent, allowing your opponent to move into a preferred attack formation, and showing why corner sitting doesn't work. You must attack and have a plan of attack.

Just to clarify you have played and finished your games vs Hell on Wheels (Deeter) and Furia Francese (frederic02)? It does state in the rules that it is 1 round at a time and we had a majority vote on keeping it that way. Firstly keep your scores safe, they may well be deleted by the end of round 3. Do a screenshot of the results and save them somewhere. Secondly do not post these results until the 2nd round and the 3rd round respectively. If there are very good reasons to do so, for example, holidays then it may be allowed but we do need to know. Also if you have contacted us about this before, apologies but we are receiving a lot of pms at the mo. Finally, finally (honest) I had thought about it a bit more. My conclusion is that it is probably best not to play 2nd or 3rd rounds, based on above but also who knows what may happen in other games. You may need a different strategy or tactic

ericdoman1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:19 am It does state in the rules that it is 1 round at a time and we had a majority vote on keeping it that way. Firstly keep your scores safe, they may well be deleted by the end of round 3. Do a screenshot of the results and save them somewhere. Secondly do not post these results until the 2nd round and the 3rd round respectively. If there are very good reasons to do so, for example, holidays then it may be allowed but we do need to know. Also if you have contacted us about this before, apologies but we are receiving a lot of pms at the mo. Finally, finally (honest) I had thought about it a bit more. My conclusion is that it is probably best not to play 2nd or 3rd rounds, based on above but also who knows what may happen in other games.

So is this rule firm or is it rubbery? What constitutes a "very good reasons" to start games early?

I've received a very early challenge, my opponent has given a reason for this, do I now hand pass this decision on to the organizers or do I go ahead and keep the result under my hat until the appropriate time?

I thought the dates for the rounds clear enough but obviously this is going on for whatever reason.

Just stick to the dates specified, 1 round at a time.

No I setup a game and sent an email to Frederic02 (the second round game) but he hasn't responded yet. Having to wait until a round finishes before you start your next game disadvantages those players from the southern hemisphere, who often can only play one or two turns a day against someone from the northern hemisphere.

Hey V. It all depends. If you have a look at Group F a game between Serbia and NZ took less than 24 hours? Our game only took a few days

vakarr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:55 am No I setup a game and sent an email to Frederic02 (the second round game) but he hasn't responded yet. Having to wait until a round finishes before you start your next game disadvantages those players from the southern hemisphere, who often can only play one or two turns a day against someone from the northern hemisphere.

We were able to play two turns per day, even with the greatest time zone difference: Canada vs. China. That was enough for a completed game. Both sides have to try to meet their commitment. Time zones are longitudinal based, not latitudinal.

In the match between Cry Havoc and Hell On Wheels the score is 8-4 to HOW with a 26% advantage. If the 4th game is not completed on time then it will go to adjudication.
I would suggest that it is may be difficult to adjudicate this game, if it is well advanced then the result may be clear but it may not be. Scoring it 2-2 or 0-0 is a match win for HOW and if it were scored 4-0 to CH then the %age score is critical - but how can that be adjudicated in an incomplete game ? I think it is fair to say that the expectation would be that CH will probably win if the game is played out (they have the higher ranked player and all 3 other matches were won by the higher ranked player) but how can you possibly adjudicate a margin of win ? Whatever the ruling one of the teams is going to feel hard done by.

So I think it is unreasonable to expect the organisers to adjudicate the game if it is not finished on time, and to make that more difficult one of the players involved is one of the organisers.

Would suggest an alternative solution. The players agree a time slot between them when the game will be played out, could be a couple of hours on the weekend when daytime overlaps. If one player is not willing to do that, or if they take more than 10 minutes for a move then the game goes to their opponent with a 40% win margin.
Another option would be to extend the time to complete the game by a day or two, that should not effect to competition schedule too much as there is a break due after the next round. But this would only work if the game is making good progress.

The competition does need some resolution to this issue. Otherwise there is the risk that a player who feels outmatched could play just a few moves so as not to be timed out and thus get a scoreless draw - which could be an excellent result for their team.

tyronec wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:21 am In the match between Cry Havoc and Hell On Wheels the score is 8-4 to HOW with a 26% advantage. If the 4th game is not completed on time then it will go to adjudication.
I would suggest that it is may be difficult to adjudicate this game, if it is well advanced then the result may be clear but it may not be. Scoring it 2-2 or 0-0 is a match win for HOW and if it were scored 4-0 to CH then the %age score is critical - but how can that be adjudicated in an incomplete game ? I think it is fair to say that the expectation would be that CH will probably win if the game is played out (they have the higher ranked player and all 3 other matches were won by the higher ranked player) but how can you possibly adjudicate a margin of win ? Whatever the ruling one of the teams is going to feel hard done by.

So I think it is unreasonable to expect the organisers to adjudicate the game if it is not finished on time, and to make that more difficult one of the players involved is one of the organisers.

Would suggest an alternative solution. The players agree a time slot between them when the game will be played out, could be a couple of hours on the weekend when daytime overlaps. If one player is not willing to do that, or if they take more than 10 minutes for a move then the game goes to their opponent with a 40% win margin.
Another option would be to extend the time to complete the game by a day or two, that should not effect to competition schedule too much as there is a break due after the next round. But this would only work if the game is making good progress.

The competition does need some resolution to this issue. Otherwise there is the risk that a player who feels outmatched could play just a few moves so as not to be timed out and thus get a scoreless draw - which could be an excellent result for their team.

What is the current game score and turn number? Any chance one of the players has been taking screen shots of the game state? Or am I the only one psychotic enough to do that.....XD

Hi, for your information, in case the organizer is involved in the game to adjudicate, a component of Slitherine will take his place in the arbitration committee.

The game will not be subjected to different playing system or exception regarding the possible adjudication, we need to have conformity to the rules.

Another important point, information about the game are needed: game score, turn number and screen shots. I have already asked update through PM.

Anyway I'm confident they will finish the game in time.

Ciao
XLegione