Slitherine

pompeytheflatulent wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 12:56 am Could it be because of the difficult slope on the corner the cataphracts are trying to cut through that the cataphracts just straight up do not have enough AP to move one square diagonally?

SuitedQueens wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 6:13 am My best guess is that Dispersion happened at the beginning of the next turn and Cataphracts spend their turn on Pursuit action.

SuitedQueens wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 6:28 pm Unfortunately I can't reproduce the issues from your threads in my games. I don't know if you fish for them specifically, but I never saw something like that before on YT or anywhere else too. Not to say that you are manufacturing specific narrative, just interesting that no one reported this stuff before.

Anyway, another interesting rule irregularity is that unmaneuvrable units count as mobile for the purposes of charging. But if they step to >=45 degree square first then they can't and they can't move into this square under normal circumstances too.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm Now the suggestion that I am manufacturing a specific narrative?!?! Possibly it is my game style that is pushing the boundaries and exposing these fringe events and I think the comment of a rounding issue might be the closest to understanding what is happening.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm It is units not testing when being shot at and receiving enough casualties to need to do a test. I think the player is going to post a query.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm On your unmaneuverable foot comment. Yes I believe that is working as designed and isn't really an irregularity.

SuitedQueens wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:15 am

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm On your unmaneuverable foot comment. Yes I believe that is working as designed and isn't really an irregularity.

I mean that's strange, but makes sense cause unmaneuvrable units will be too weak and easy to exploit otherwise.

SuitedQueens wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:15 am

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm Now the suggestion that I am manufacturing a specific narrative?!?! Possibly it is my game style that is pushing the boundaries and exposing these fringe events and I think the comment of a rounding issue might be the closest to understanding what is happening.

I wouldn't say someone pushing boundaries of gameplay if they are not using enough light cavalry. Visit my thread "Playing for tricks" and check "Mechanics questions" where I posted another example of 5 piece setup when I wasn't aware of "light horse doesn't change engaged unit facing" rule. Ofc it's possible without LH units, but other units not even close to being that mobile which means that things you can do is not that complex.

I'm sorry I don't understand the LH statement. I will read your threads.

SuitedQueens wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 8:15 am

It is units not testing when being shot at and receiving enough casualties to need to do a test. I think the player is going to post a query.

I had this one too on couple of occasions. I clearly dealt more than 10% but CT wasn't happening.

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm It is units not testing when being shot at and receiving enough casualties to need to do a test. I think the player is going to post a query.

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 12:04 pm Sometimes combat log shows cohesion tests taken in those cases, it's just the "hold firm" visual missing.

The upshot is that the 10% is very much an approximation, and it is all WAD.

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 12:04 pm Regarding the cataphract case:
My guess is that lights broke in the in-between-turns phase, and cataphracts are considered having pursued them.

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 12:04 pm Lancers seem to be on the difficult slope and so were unable to pursuit (at least I think severely disordered cavalry never pursuits).

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 12:04 pm

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm It is units not testing when being shot at and receiving enough casualties to need to do a test. I think the player is going to post a query.

Sometimes combat log shows cohesion tests taken in those cases, it's just the "hold firm" visual missing.

Regarding the cataphract case:

My guess is that lights broke in the in-between-turns phase, and cataphracts are considered having pursued them. Lancers seem to be on the difficult slope and so were unable to pursuit (at least I think severely disordered cavalry never pursuits).

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 6:56 pm Picture6.jpg

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 12:04 pm

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 pm It is units not testing when being shot at and receiving enough casualties to need to do a test. I think the player is going to post a query.

Sometimes combat log shows cohesion tests taken in those cases, it's just the "hold firm" visual missing.

Regarding the cataphract case:

My guess is that lights broke in the in-between-turns phase, and cataphracts are considered having pursued them. Lancers seem to be on the difficult slope and so were unable to pursuit (at least I think severely disordered cavalry never pursuits).

The slope is actually good going although it looks steep. Both lancer and cat were not disordered or worse. I fought the enemy unit in my turn and it immediately dispersed as it had nowhere to rout. As with all these issues I experience they come in phases which in much earlier posts on other issues I was told it is statistical clumping. The inability to move into a square and units freezing as they have supposedly spotted unseen enemy (which they haven't) follow that same pattern of statistical clumping. So if they have little chance of occurring it could be a calculation rounding error that covers all these issues including units not breaking at less than 50%. I realise that does not explain why I experience these events more than others and only a few experience them at all.

Paul59 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:10 pm

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 6:56 pm Picture6.jpg

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 12:04 pm

Sometimes combat log shows cohesion tests taken in those cases, it's just the "hold firm" visual missing.

Regarding the cataphract case:

My guess is that lights broke in the in-between-turns phase, and cataphracts are considered having pursued them. Lancers seem to be on the difficult slope and so were unable to pursuit (at least I think severely disordered cavalry never pursuits).

The slope is actually good going although it looks steep. Both lancer and cat were not disordered or worse. I fought the enemy unit in my turn and it immediately dispersed as it had nowhere to rout. As with all these issues I experience they come in phases which in much earlier posts on other issues I was told it is statistical clumping. The inability to move into a square and units freezing as they have supposedly spotted unseen enemy (which they haven't) follow that same pattern of statistical clumping. So if they have little chance of occurring it could be a calculation rounding error that covers all these issues including units not breaking at less than 50%. I realise that does not explain why I experience these events more than others and only a few experience them at all.

In the screenshot in your first post the Cataphracts banner seems to be darkened.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 6:29 am

Paul59 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 8:10 pm

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 6:56 pm Picture6.jpg

The slope is actually good going although it looks steep. Both lancer and cat were not disordered or worse. I fought the enemy unit in my turn and it immediately dispersed as it had nowhere to rout. As with all these issues I experience they come in phases which in much earlier posts on other issues I was told it is statistical clumping. The inability to move into a square and units freezing as they have supposedly spotted unseen enemy (which they haven't) follow that same pattern of statistical clumping. So if they have little chance of occurring it could be a calculation rounding error that covers all these issues including units not breaking at less than 50%. I realise that does not explain why I experience these events more than others and only a few experience them at all.

In the screenshot in your first post the Cataphracts banner seems to be darkened.

It also has "No CC" which means that its CannotControl flag has been set. This flag is always reset to 0 at the start of the turn (before residual melees belonging to the previous turn, routs, pursuits etc. are adjudicated), which means that it must have been set to 1 during the residual melee, pursuits etc. phase. This only happens if the unit pursues or routs.

This suggests that, as SuitedQueens suggested, the unit actually "pursued" the dispersing unit in the residual melee/rout/pursuit phase. I am guessing that the cataphracts were the unit that actually broke the enemy unit, and the other unit did not "pursue" because by the time it reached the point in the internal sequence where it would do so, the routers had dispersed, so it didn't get flagged with the CannotControl flag. If so, this could be termed a feature rather than a bug.

If it happens again, to Cunningcairn or anyone else, please could you provide more examples as they arise. Preferably with game saves if it happens in SP.