Slitherine

For now,if you select the agriculture type but it will generate many difficult terrains like in below,I remember most open battles in Medieval times the both sides will find a relatively plain field as what you made in the game's epic battle scenarios to fight.So there is necessary to add a such type of map,with many open grounds but less difficult terrains also with European agriculture textures.Any commander found a place that full of difficult terrains then declare to fight must be idiot especially a knightly army unless they're forced accept to fight at here or they're been lured to the place.By the way,I think the game should change the AI's formation which use the knightly armies to deploy their knights in front and infantry on their backs as this was a more common battle formation of that time.

Don't we have steppes for open ground battle? Even though steppes is boring to look at...

@Dux Limitis : there is a quick fix for your problem. Learn how to make scenarios in the editor. It is straightforward to create random maps with the Random Map Plugin, then replace as many difficult/rough squares as you want to with open ones. Then you can easily place the AI's units as you wish with knights in front and infantry on their backs. You can create such a map in say 2-10 minutes.

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:54 pm @Dux Limitis : there is a quick fix for your problem. Learn how to make scenarios in the editor. It is straightforward to create random maps with the Random Map Plugin, then replace as many difficult/rough squares as you want to with open ones. Then you can easily place the AI's units as you wish with knights in front and infantry on their backs. You can create such a map in say 2-10 minutes.

Why I need to take 2-10 minutes every time before just to play a random battle that set right?If the game just add right options.

I think your words just like if I bought a waterpipe and it burst sometimes later but you don't think call experts to check it is reasonable instead you say I should learn how to repair the waterpipe myself and the waterpipe need to be fix every day if don't have the experts to fix it once for all.

Atherys wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:24 pm Don't we have steppes for open ground battle? Even though steppes is boring to look at...

Steppes are not agriculture area.Just need a map type that with agriculture textures but more open grounds like common Western Euro battle grounds,still the steppe map is full of grasses and will affect the game frames(Sightly lower,but not that much than woods).

Yours problems are overwhelming.
The developers should deal with it immediately.

gribol wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:10 am Yours problems are overwhelming.
The developers should deal with it immediately.

For what I already tested,the FoG II:Ancient's map generator will generate more open terrains than Medieval's.(Both selected the agriculture type)They really should look into it or just add a plain/open terrain type map.

Would it be possible to generate a steppes map that uses European agricultural textures? Might that be a quick fix?

Benedict151 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:01 am Would it be possible to generate a steppes map that uses European agricultural textures? Might that be a quick fix?

Maybe,let's wait the devs to say,see how would they deal with that.

Also the AI's battle formation.

I like it as it is. The idea that historical armies fought battles on terrain as featureless as the printed pages in the books that display the battle maps is absurd. History is full of battles where armies struggled against terrain. Players that can't cope with historical challenges around terrain should stick with chess.

Quick, somewhat related, question,

if I pick pot luck as map type, does that include Steppe and Frozen map sets, because I never seem to get them? There are an equal number of frozen to northern europe maps yet they never appear for me in skirmish or sandbox campaigns... are they not in the random map pool or am I just unlucky. Maybe just have to always manually select them?

julianbarker wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:30 pm History is full of battles where armies struggled against terrain.

Some cases can't represent all.Does the battles like Pydna,Kephistos can represent most of the open battles?Or tell me about why Medieval armies tend to deploy heavy cavalry in front of the army when fight an open battle?To let them better struggle with the random rough grounds that spawn in the middle of the map?

Jace11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:29 pm Quick, somewhat related, question,

if I pick pot luck as map type, does that include Steppe and Frozen map sets, because I never seem to get them? There are an equal number of frozen to northern europe maps yet they never appear for me in skirmish or sandbox campaigns... are they not in the random map pool or am I just unlucky. Maybe just have to always manually select them?

I never use the pot luck as map type,I always use the agriculture type by select it manually before the battle.

Jace11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:29 pm Quick, somewhat related, question,

if I pick pot luck as map type, does that include Steppe and Frozen map sets, because I never seem to get them? There are an equal number of frozen to northern europe maps yet they never appear for me in skirmish or sandbox campaigns... are they not in the random map pool or am I just unlucky. Maybe just have to always manually select them?

AFAIK, potluck terrain is not totally random; the base terrain type is linked to a prioritized list between the options of the two armies involved. Thus, a Viking vs Irish game would never take place in desert or steppe, but would be some flavor of Northern European.

One of my wishes, would be to have an option for truly randomized terrain divorced from the army lists.

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:18 am (...) Or tell me about why Medieval armies tend to deploy heavy cavalry in front of the army when fight an open battle?To let them better struggle with the random rough grounds that spawn in the middle of the map?

How the medieval battlefield was prepared before each battle :

julianbarker wrote: (...) Players that can't cope with historical challenges around terrain should stick with chess.

Indeed, it has something to do with the draughts/checkers syndrome : players asking for extremely nerfing or removing any effects in the game (no pursuing, no rallying, flat and open terrains. nerfing of the highest PoAs and flank charges...)

Jace11 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:29 pm Quick, somewhat related, question,

if I pick pot luck as map type, does that include Steppe and Frozen map sets, because I never seem to get them?

It does not.

Maybe just have to always manually select them?

If you want them yes. Marshy maps also aren't included in Pot Luck.

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:51 am

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:18 am (...) Or tell me about why Medieval armies tend to deploy heavy cavalry in front of the army when fight an open battle?To let them better struggle with the random rough grounds that spawn in the middle of the map?

How the medieval battlefield was prepared before each battle :

Very humorous, but there's something I wanna ask you is,how do you think the Battle of Bouvines will goes if there were many random spawned rough grounds on every where of the battle field?Will the Imperial knights in the central ridden down the French infantry swiftly?Or cavalry fights on the both flanks will went sweetly but not all struggled with the rough grounds?Like I said,most of the open battle in that period will found a relatively open terrain in order to convenient for heavy cavalry to move.Who wanna fight at a place that full of difficult terrains and not hilly&wood&marsh type maps?The Teutonic Order launched winter crusades against pagan Baltics in order to let the marshy terrains frozen then the heavy cavalry could move and fight better.No one likes difficult terrains if they could choose more suitable place to fight or avoid from it.

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:15 pm No one likes difficult terrains if they could choose more suitable place to fight or avoid from it.

I like difficult terrains, because its easy to kick a... people, wchich cant make any other attack, that frontal charge of heavy cavalry.
And that, what you are supposing, about looking for open terrains, are just yours imagination and not reality.
That is just not true.

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:15 pm

Athos1660 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:51 am

Dux Limitis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:18 am (...) Or tell me about why Medieval armies tend to deploy heavy cavalry in front of the army when fight an open battle?To let them better struggle with the random rough grounds that spawn in the middle of the map?

How the medieval battlefield was prepared before each battle :

Very humorous, but there's something I wanna ask you is,how do you think the Battle of Bouvines will goes if there were many random spawned rough grounds on every where of the battle field?Will the Imperial knights in the central ridden down the French infantry swiftly?Or cavalry fights on the both flanks will went sweetly but not all struggled with the rough grounds?Like I said,most of the open battle in that period will found a relatively open terrain in order to convenient for heavy cavalry to move.Who wanna fight at a place that full of difficult terrains and not hilly&wood&marsh type maps?The Teutonic Order launched winter crusades against pagan Baltics in order to let the marshy terrains frozen then the heavy cavalry could move and fight better.No one likes difficult terrains if they could choose more suitable place to fight or avoid from it.

I don’t like to talk about things I don’t know very well. But it turns out that I recently hear about the book of an authoritative scholar about the battle of Bouvines.

According to him, the battle started as a skirmish between the French Rearguard and the Enemy Advance Guard. The French main army that had crossed the river retraced its steps to come and rescue the rear guard, which wasn't expected. The units engaged the enemy in the course of their arrival, some even never fought, so that the skirmish turned into a disorganised battle. And the two armies have never been in battle array, facing each other, immobile as lots of modern diagrams show.

So If we take the author’s theory to its logical conclusion, the location of the battlefield wasn’t chosen, but was the conjunction of circumstances… That would answer your questions.

Of course, this analysis can be debated and some will reject it, but that is enough for me to think that one should refrain from drawing conclusions too hastily (especially about the factor(s) that made medieval armies ‘choose' the location of their battles).

IRL, countryside is… well, countryside with open, rough and difficult terrain. And in game, maps with various types of terrain are funnier.