Slitherine

Hi.
I've been checking the manual while I'm playing because I just recently started on FOG2. But reading some threads here and checking some match ups in game, only now I realized that the POA tables in the manual are somewhat outdated (wich is normal due to changes via patches).
Anyway, is there any place where I can check the POA tables updated for the latest patch & all DLC's?

For example, on one game, I checked the tooltip for the POA's on impact phase of a cavalry unit vs Heavy Chariot and there was a +150 POA for the Heavy Chariot that it's not on the POA tables on the manual.

Thanks in advance.

There isn't an updated table as far as I know. However, the Patch Notes from all previous patches are in PatchNotes.RTF in the main folder of the game build. Changes to POAs will usually be under the "Gameplay:" heading.

Ok. Thank you

Going through each patches notes and pulling out POA updates would be hard, IMO.

Having an updated POA table for both FoG Ancients & Medieval would be an amazing resource that I think many people would value. It could simply be a sticky here on the forums.

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:06 pm Going through each patches notes and pulling out POA updates would be hard, IMO.

Having an updated POA table for both FoG Ancients & Medieval would be an amazing resource that I think many people would value. It could simply be a sticky here on the forums.

Good idea! It's excellent also if the player community can contribute and help each other, so if you create such a table for Ancients, I can add it to the first post of stickied Quick questions on rules topic. Please then let me know.

I'd be happy to compile a POA chart. I do similar things all the time for many other games.

Where can I get a comprehensive list of all patch notes (i.e. the PatchNotes.RTF file for all patches that have been pushed out since launch)?

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:59 pm I'd be happy to compile a POA chart. I do similar things all the time for many other games.

Where can I get a comprehensive list of all patch notes (i.e. the PatchNotes.RTF file for all patches that have been pushed out since launch)?

All of the patch notes from all patches are in the PatchNotes.RTF file in the main directory of the build.

Awesome! Thanks!

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:23 pm

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:59 pm I'd be happy to compile a POA chart. I do similar things all the time for many other games.

Where can I get a comprehensive list of all patch notes (i.e. the PatchNotes.RTF file for all patches that have been pushed out since launch)?

All of the patch notes from all patches are in the PatchNotes.RTF file in the main directory of the build.

I would still encourage providing updated POA and other game tables. Many players will never fully understand the game without them and that might discourage such people from appreciating this game in full. It also lends the advantage "arcane knowledge" to an inner circle of players which disadvantages other players through no fault of their own. Thank you.

Badger73 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:57 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:23 pm

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:59 pm I'd be happy to compile a POA chart. I do similar things all the time for many other games.

Where can I get a comprehensive list of all patch notes (i.e. the PatchNotes.RTF file for all patches that have been pushed out since launch)?

All of the patch notes from all patches are in the PatchNotes.RTF file in the main directory of the build.

I would still encourage providing updated POA and other game tables. Many players will never fully understand the game without them and that might discourage such people from appreciating this game in full. It also lends the advantage "arcane knowledge" to an inner circle of players which disadvantages other players through no fault of their own. Thank you.

I agree with Badger73

I've finished reviewing the patch notes and there aren't too many POA changes. I noticed half of the changes are already in Medieval POA charts (the other half being not relevant to Medieval involving things like chariots or elephants).

Question: Is the underlying engine the same between FoG and FoG:M? If so, I could create a combined, updated POA chart for both platforms.

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:53 pm I've finished reviewing the patch notes and there aren't too many POA changes. I noticed half of the changes are already in Medieval POA charts (the other half being not relevant to Medieval involving things like chariots or elephants).

Question: Is the underlying engine the same between FoG and FoG:M? If so, I could create a combined, updated POA chart for both platforms.

The engine is the same, and the scripts are mostly the same, but there are some things in Medieval that are not in Ancients - e.g. the extra Impact POA for deep spears being charged by knights. But there aren't any knights either. There may be one or two POAs that are not exactly the same, but I cannot immediately bring any to mind.

It is probably safer (and better for future maintenance purposes) to make separate charts, even though they will be mostly the same. The games will probably diverge more in future updates.

As requested I have created an updated POA chart which includes any POA adjustments I could find in the patch notes.

I have tried to carefully word the chart to avoid potential confusion. I have also merged Ancients and Medieval into one chart as it seems they are easily compatible and I don't want to maintain separate charts. If in the future they diverge at all, I will denote these divergences in the sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

If anyone sees any corrections needed, please let me know by replying to this thread.

Regards

When it comes to quality POAs, units can have other values; for example, Arab Lancers and some 'Cavalry' are +25, Thematic Lancers/Archers are +12, etc, though both fit in the numerical range that is described as "Above Average." There, are, in addition, Highly Superior units that are +75. So because of the varied range of numbers that can go with each verbal description, I'm not sure how useful it is to include quality POAs.

As to Overlappers, see pg 133 of the Medieval manual - "Large pike or offensive spear unit units with a proportion of heavy weapon get an Overlappers bonus in Melee against smaller enemy units." So we don't see any yet, though presumably they will appear with 15th century pike blocks; none of the Ancients pikemen have accompanying HW. Various units in Pike and Shot received this POA.

Thank you for those clarifications! I like having the quality in there because it's often overlooked and also good for newer players to know.

I'll probably just put ranges in the spreadsheet (e.g. "12 - 25") so that at least it's there.

Good work! I looked hard (well, as hard as anyone could look on a small mobile phone screen) and found only a typo ("Better Armour") and the need for ranges within Quality.

Once you're finalised I could link to your spreadsheet in the Quick Questions on Rules sticky's first post and maybe even make an imgur image of it to put in the sticky's first post.

Thank you for pointing out that typo. I ran a spell check and fixed a couple others as well.

With regard to quality ranges, I tried spot-checking some army lists but didn't find any others besides "above average" being either +12 or +25 and "superior" being either +50 or +75? It looks like how there is a nice spread of numbers, my guess is there are no other ranges but I don't claim to be knowledgeable of every army list either.

Highly Superior is +75, as far as I can tell Superior is always 50

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:32 pm Thank you for pointing out that typo. I ran a spell check and fixed a couple others as well.

With regard to quality ranges, I tried spot-checking some army lists but didn't find any others besides "above average" being either +12 or +25 and "superior" being either +50 or +75? It looks like how there is a nice spread of numbers, my guess is there are no other ranges but I don't claim to be knowledgeable of every army list either.

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:36 pm Highly Superior is +75, as far as I can tell Superior is always 50

If I recall correctly, the ranges are set out in one of the files of the game(s): have unfortunately forgotten which file.

rbodleyscott wrote:

Richard; Could you enlighten us please? Or if someone else knows the answer?

kronenblatt wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:35 pm

CaptainPunka wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:32 pm Thank you for pointing out that typo. I ran a spell check and fixed a couple others as well.

With regard to quality ranges, I tried spot-checking some army lists but didn't find any others besides "above average" being either +12 or +25 and "superior" being either +50 or +75? It looks like how there is a nice spread of numbers, my guess is there are no other ranges but I don't claim to be knowledgeable of every army list either.

SnuggleBunnies wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:36 pm Highly Superior is +75, as far as I can tell Superior is always 50

If I recall correctly, the ranges are set out in one of the files of the game(s): have unfortunately forgotten which file.

rbodleyscott wrote:

Richard; Could you enlighten us please? Or if someone else knows the answer?

Quality ratings can be anywhere between 0 and 300, although in practice only a few ratings are currently used by the game. However, in a minority of Epic battles other values are used, and in campaign games unit quality can be gained (and lost?) through battles survived, so can be anything between 0 and 300.

A unit's quality ratings are found in the Squads.csv file, and are an average of the unit's Experience (column AG) and Elan (column AH) ratings. Luckily, these two values are usually the same, so working out the average is easy!

The names that the UI uses for the different quality ranges are set out in the UITools.bsf file. Basically they are as follows:

Untrained; quality less than or equal to 40. (Usually 0)

Raw; between 41 and 60. (Usually 50)

Below Average; between 61 and 90. (Usually 75)

Average; between 91 and 110. (Usually 100)

Above Average; between 111 and 159. (Usually 150, although Spartan Pike, Detached Thematic Archers, Thematic Lancers & Archers, Byzantine Flankers, Byzantine Lancers and Armoured horse archers are 125)

Superior; between 160 and 210. (Usually 200)

Highly Superior; between 211 and 250. (Usually 250)

Elite; over 250. (Usually 300)

Some FoG2 Medieval units use quality ratings not normally seen in Ancients, ie Lithuanian cavalry are 133.

Note that the quality POA is half the difference between the units quality and Average quality (taken as 100). So a Superior unit (of quality 200) would receive a quality POA of +50 ((200-100)/2=50).