Slitherine

Recently in a game my lancer cav charged a BG of MF, the MF were located in a field with only about a 1/3 of the end base projecting out of the field. My cav only contacted the bit of the base in the open.

The rules say use the terrain of the base claiming the POA. Is it correct that the cav get 2 POAs, one for lancers and another for MF in the open?

Would this also apply if the MF were deployed completely in difficult terrain with their front edge right at the edge of the terrain? The cav would be in the open while the MF are completely in difficult terrain.

Get ready to open another Pandora's box!

I'm guided by the glossary - P135 Open Terrain.

The way I read it, your lancers get their lance, since they are completely within open terrain.

However, IMO they do not get the additional POA vs MF, since the MF are partly within terrain. Similarly, should the MF lose in a subsequent melee phase, they would not suffer the minus 1 for losing to Mounted in the open since they, the MF, are not completely in the open.

I believe the same applies to your second scenario.

But, as ever, others may disagree since it is possible to read it differently.

Pete

petedalby wrote:Get ready to open another Pandora's box!

I'm guided by the glossary - P135 Open Terrain.

The way I read it, your lancers get their lance, since they are completely within open terrain.

However, IMO they do not get the additional POA vs MF, since the MF are partly within terrain. Similarly, should the MF lose in a subsequent melee phase, they would not suffer the minus 1 for losing to Mounted in the open since they, the MF, are not completely in the open.

I believe the same applies to your second scenario.

But, as ever, others may disagree since it is possible to read it differently.

Pete

From the same reading the POA is driven by the base claiming the POA. The lancers are claiming the "in the open" POA so why not get it in both cases. If you want to get the protection of terrain you need to within it to be sure - not just straddilng the edge. even having a corner of a base out of the terrain may not save you as the charger may be in a position to wheel first so the contact is on the part in the open only.

Anthony

I too believe that all the POA's are for the base counting them - hence with the lance being in the open it does get the two plusses.

Moral of the story - don't stand at the edge!

dave_r wrote:I too believe that all the POA's are for the base counting them

Hance why it doesn't matter if the 4th rank of pike is not in the open IIRC.

Happy to concede I may have this wrong!

As Dave says - the simple solution is to keep the BG entirely within the terrain.

Pete

Yes the other chaps are right Pete - you re over complicating it.

Si

PS fancy a game sometime?

Interesting question, but can I further ask... what happens after impact.

The cavalry have to conform to the enemy, and thus will be 'in the rough terrain' - correct? Or can they avoid going into disordering terrain?

Ian

Interesting question, but can I further ask... what happens after impact.

The cavalry have to conform to the enemy, and thus will be 'in the rough terrain' - correct? Or can they avoid going into disordering terrain?

During the melee phase the cav would have to confirm and are moved into the disordering terrain, that is how we did it.

Correct. Which gives a nice mid-range result for being near the terrain

1 good round
1not so good round

So you still need to be wary of troops "in" terrain enough to pull you into it during the messy phase - which is quite realistic of how a fight would spred into troublesome terrain if very close by.

Si

shall wrote:So you still need to be wary of troops "in" terrain enough to pull you into it during the messy phase - which is quite realistic of how a fight would spred into troublesome terrain if very close by.

Or foe sneaky enemy troops in the open with terrain in front of them that your troops will have to conform into if they charge (I managed this where the terrain was a steep hill and my opponents were HF spearmen the other day

I had some medium foot that had chaged out of the difficult terrain but left two corner bases in the difficult terrain. They were then charged by pikemen. Two bases were counted as disordered because they were fighting in difficult terrain and the battlegroup lost the impact phase combat. When they do the cohesion test, do they count as losing to heavy foot in the open?

Yes if any part of the fighting line is in the open vs the pikes; mirror image of pikes taking a -1 for severely disordered if some are in a marsh.

Si