Slitherine

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:14 pm**

Hello.

I've just started watching a new video posted by SnuggleBunnies showcasing an online FoG2 Medieval match Russians vs Poles (both with allies)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiVC45X6lkQ

Long story short, I've noticed that one of the Polish sub-generals name is "Mikołaj Mielecki" and frankly it's very anachronistic and immersion-breaking for native speakers.

I take that it was taken from an actual historical figure, Great Hetman of the Polish Crown Mikołaj Mielecki Gryf coat-of-arms. But he lived in the XVI century.

Unfortunately, such a name, especially the Lastname, would be very out of place in XIII century Poland.

I was wondering if such names aren't just placeholders, maybe commander name lists of different countries present in the game could be posted on the forum so native speakers could give their suggestions?

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:23 pm**

Hm, a name and last name like that wouldn't be something completely out of place in XIV century Kindom of Poland.

The problem appears with earlier army lists covering the XI or XII century (I don't exactly know what army lists Poland has in this game). Then again if those names are supposed to remain the same with future DLCs adding later periods then I see why devs decided to use names that would fit the later lits added in the future.

Otherwise, yeah, they may be a little immersion breaking. Then again, the names of generals in regular Fog 2 were also... hm, a bit clunky. I imagine that commanders' names aren't high on the priority list.

Posted: **Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:42 pm**

Veles wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:23 pm Hm, a name and last name like that wouldn't be something completely out of place in XIV century Kindom of Poland.

The problem appears with earlier army lists like that covering XI or XII century (I don't exactly know what army lists Poland has in this game). Then again if those names are supposed to remain the same with future DLCs adding later periods then I see why devs decided to use names that would fit the later lits added in the future.

This.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:07 am**

Well the problem could at least be solved in campaigns by renaming your generals, except you can't. The option is there but it doesn't work. And of course it won't be added to custom battles because it was decided no one would bother to use it (which I disagree with 'cause I'd use it all the time). So we have an anemic feature that only works in campaigns, that partially does what it was designed to do. We can give a unit a name (which is great) but you can't change the names of generals.

Mord.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:46 am**

The "Change Unit Name" feature was never designed to change the names of Generals, only units.

I agree though that it would be good if there was a "Change General Name" feature. I don't know if it would be possible though, it might be more difficult than changing the name of a unit.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:41 pm**

I almost suggested "Change Unit Name" in Custom battles (for a future game or version). It'd add some immersion.

Posted: **Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:27 pm**

I've been watching another video on the SnuggleBunny channel (second match between Poles and Russians) and noticed a name that indeed is anachronistic/unhistorical.

One of the Polish commanders with a Lastname Glinski... Glinski were originally a Tatar family. Refugees that after 1380 escaped the Golden Horde and were given land in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (the village of Glinsk). Eventually, decades later, they baptized and were given the name Glinski derived from the name of their estate.

The thing is, they won't become Polish until long after the time span of this game even if DLCs will extend it to the XV century.

Scartabelli might by right. Maybe those names should be reviewed to avoid such situations. On the other hand, it seems like a really small detail. Maybe it's not worth the hassle?

Posted: **Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:14 am**

Veles wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 2:27 pm I've been watching another video on the SnuggleBunny channel (second match between Poles and Russians) and noticed a name that indeed is anachronistic/unhistorical.

One of the Polish commanders with a Lastname Glinski... Glinski were originally a Tatar family. Refugees that after 1380 escaped the Golden Horde and were given land in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (the village of Glinsk). Eventually, decades later, they baptized and were given the name Glinski derived from the name of their estate.

The thing is, they won't become Polish until long after the time span of this game even if DLCs will extend it to the XV century.

Scartabelli might by right. Maybe those names should be reviewed to avoid such situations. On the other hand, it seems like a really small detail. Maybe it's not worth the hassle?

If you give me a list of inappropriate names, with more appropriate replacements, I can hopefully substitute them at some stage. (Maybe in an update after the initial release, as obviously more will come to light when you have full access to the game).

We want to be as authentic as possible (for randomly generated names!), but our sources of research on names for some nations are limited. Also, as you know, we need to use the same name sets for each nation over the full 1040-1500 period of the game, which is obviously going to be anachronistic for part of the period. If we wanted to provide early and later names, it would mean adding in multiple versions of each nationality, with knock-on effects. It could be done, but there are other priorities at present.

Posted: **Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:41 am**

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:14 am If you give me a list of inappropriate names, with more appropriate replacements, I can hopefully substitute them at some stage. (Maybe in an update after the initial release, as obviously more will come to light when you have full access to the game).

Sure, I could do that.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:14 am We want to be as authentic as possible (for randomly generated names!), but our sources of research on names for some nations are limited.

Admirable, that you want to commit time for such a small thing. I'm impressed. Most game devs would not bother.

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:14 am Also, as you know, we need to use the same name sets for each nation over the full 1040-1500 period of the game, which is obviously going to be anachronistic for part of the period. If we wanted to provide early and later names, it would mean adding in multiple versions of each nationality, with knock-on effects. It could be done, but there are other priorities at present.

Yeah, I get it. I think it is possible to choose names that will fit the general time span of the game having future DLCs in mind.

Posted: **Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:36 pm**

rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:14 am We want to be as authentic as possible (for randomly generated names!)

I watched few Medieval videos on youtube and noticed some very unusual Rus' names. For example: Oleg ValentinEvich, Miroslav LyovEvich, Olgov BorislavEvic. As a part of Rus' people, i can tell, we use letter "o" in this places

Maybe there are few exceptions, like Grigorievich, but mostly it is Valentinovich, Lyovovich and Borislavovich. Also name Olgov looks very unusual, but maybe it's very old name we not use in this time. If you give me the list of Rus' names, i can check it for right spelling

Posted: **Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:55 am**

Parallax wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:36 pm
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:14 am We want to be as authentic as possible (for randomly generated names!)
I watched few Medieval videos on youtube and noticed some very unusual Rus' names. For example: Oleg ValentinEvich, Miroslav LyovEvich, Olgov BorislavEvic. As a part of Rus' people, i can tell, we use letter "o" in this places Maybe there are few exceptions, like Grigorievich, but mostly it is Valentinovich, Lyovovich and Borislavovich. Also name Olgov looks very unusual, but maybe it's very old name we not use in this time. If you give me the list of Rus' names, i can check it for right spelling

I will switch it to "ovich".

I got the names from lists of Medieval Russian names. It is possible, however, that "Olgov" is a typo, as I cannot find it again. I will replace it.

Posted: **Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:55 pm**

Ivan the Terrible's dear old mother was a Glinskii. So that would be early 16th century. A non sequitor but why teach history for years if you can't pontificate now and then.

Slitherine

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