Slitherine

And i have a few questions.. A few i have already answered by looking through the rules.. A mixed group of Feudal Nobles and Strzelcy is charged.. Do the rear rank cav shoot? I am thinking not.. Also for being shot at.. I am assuming it will be against Hvy armor.. But what happens i am down to 3 stands?(losing 1 knight base) Shooting from the front i am assuming hvy armor is counted.. But from the flank? from the rear i am assuming armored. On page 71 of Eternal empire i am looking at on how to represented.. The first bullet.. Either all knights.. Do they all fight as knights? or 1/2 and 1/2.. I am a person that learns by doing and not reading.. So this is why i am asking... And can anyone put their 2 cents in of occasions i am not thinking of? hehe Thanks all!

2nd rank cavalry do not shoot when receiving or making an impact move.

YOu count POAs in the front rank. So if you are down to 3 bass KN with XB behind and the other just XB. THen the units fighting the KN face HA the XB whatever it is rated at.

no, i am talking about when being shot at:-)

Andy1972 wrote:A mixed group of Feudal Nobles and Strzelcy is charged.. Do the rear rank cav shoot? I am thinking not..

You are right, as Hazelbark elaborated.

Also for being shot at.. I am assuming it will be against Hvy armor . . . .. But what happens i am down to 3 stands?(losing 1 knight base) Shooting from the front i am assuming hvy armor is counted.. But from the flank? from the rear i am assuming armored.

I believe you are correct. P95 says the front rank armour class counts unless shot at from entirely behind <EDIT> the BG's extended rear line, in which case the rear rank's armour is used. If the rear rank becomes the front rank as well on that side, I'm confident its armour is used for a flank shot on that side but can't cite more than the above and logic.

On page 71, all Knights means they are just Knights with no Strzelcy in that BG, instead of having it half of each.

Andy1972 wrote:no, i am talking about when being shot at:-)

depends on which base is being shot. if it is a HA base then HA applies.

oh ok, hazel.. I have never broken down shooting like i have melee.. Its the same thing.. Just have to figure out which stand is more to the front.

P95 says the front rank armour class counts unless shot at from entirely behind <EDIT> the BG's extended rear line, in which case the rear rank's armour is used.

The important point here is that the firers must be behind the BG's rear edge. (i.e. entirely behind the back ranks rear edge) I can't think of a circumstance where that wouldn't put the rear rank base closer to the firer.
Some bases of the firer may be firing at the rear rank, and some at the front. Take POAs to suit.

Each shooting base has its own individual target enemy base. So if the front rank of the target BG is half Heavily Armoured, half Armoured, then the shooting bases will count the armour of whatever (front rank) enemy base is their priority target.

(The rules re shooting at mixed BGs assume that each rank of the target has a homogenous armour level. If that is not the case, then the above applies. This could happen owing to base removal - as per your example, or due to the BG expanding into a single rank).

I strongly recommend not having the rear rank strzelcy as Protected, it is a false economy, as I found out to my cost.

terrys wrote:The important point here is that the firers must be behind the BG's rear edge. (i.e. entirely behind the back ranks rear edge) I can't think of a circumstance where that wouldn't put the rear rank base closer to the firer.

The incorrigible troublemaker kinked column can be shot in the front base by shooters all behind the BG rear edge.

Some bases of the firer may be firing at the rear rank, and some at the front. Take POAs to suit.

What you said makes sense if there were both Strzelcy and Knights in the front rank and some bases were shooting at each of them, but I don't understand your front/rear comment since page 95 gives a simple rule - use front rank armour if not all behind the back edge of the BG, rear rank armour if all behind. Are we missing a rule providing front/rear splits?

Thanks,

Mike

rbodleyscott wrote:Each shooting base has its own individual target enemy base. So if the front rank of the target BG is half Heavily Armoured, half Armoured, then the shooting bases will count the armour of whatever enemy base is their priority target.

(The rules re shooting at mixed BGs assume that each rank of the target has a homogenous armour level. If that is not the case, then the above applies. This could happen owing to base removal - as per your example, or due to the BG expanding into a single rank).

I strongly recommend not having the rear rank strzelcy as Protected, it is a false economy, as I found out to my cost.

So would a BG of 2 HA Kn and 2 Prot Cav rear rank count as prot Cav 2 ranks deep if shot from behind the protected Cav? What if it had lost a base and had a prot Cav in the front rank, but the other base of cav behind the Kn, if shot from front or rear?

philqw78 wrote:So would a BG of 2 HA Kn and 2 Prot Cav rear rank count as prot Cav 2 ranks deep if shot from behind the protected Cav? What if it had lost a base and had a prot Cav in the front rank, but the other base of cav behind the Kn, if shot from front or rear?

Arguable.

philqw78 wrote:So would a BG of 2 HA Kn and 2 Prot Cav rear rank count as prot Cav 2 ranks deep if shot from behind the protected Cav? What if it had lost a base and had a prot Cav in the front rank, but the other base of cav behind the Kn, if shot from front or rear?

Posts charging in too fast to respond. . . . can't evade . . .

... Shot from the rear it would have to count as prot cav 2 ranks deep per p95. If shot from the front or flank it would depend whether it's on the Knight side or the Cav side since the front rank armour counts, so the 2 rank POA would only apply if that front rank base had another Prot Cav behind. This reinforces the lesson that the single second rank Cav should always stick behind the Knight - better for shooting, for melee, and for being shot at.

MikeK wrote:This reinforces the lesson that the single second rank Cav should always stick behind the Knight - better for shooting, for melee, and for being shot at.

It isn't better for melee. For melee it is better behind the other Cv.

MikeK wrote:
... Shot from the rear it would have to count as prot cav 2 ranks deep per p95. If shot from the front or flank it would depend whether it's on the Knight side or the Cav side since the front rank armour counts, so the 2 rank POA would only apply if that front rank base had another Prot Cav behind.

But prot Cav in a 3 front, 1 rear formation counts 2 ranks deep, even if you are only in arc for a bit one rank deep doesn't it?

philqw78 wrote:

MikeK wrote:
... Shot from the rear it would have to count as prot cav 2 ranks deep per p95. If shot from the front or flank it would depend whether it's on the Knight side or the Cav side since the front rank armour counts, so the 2 rank POA would only apply if that front rank base had another Prot Cav behind.

But prot Cav in a 3 front, 1 rear formation counts 2 ranks deep, even if you are only in arc for a bit one rank deep doesn't it?

Yes, because the rules require them to be entirely 1 rank deep to escape the POA.

Thanks, I was thinking lancers. Too late to keep up the post pace.

So then

Bow
Prot cav
Kn













If the bow are shooting up the page at effective range they get 1 dice at + and 2 at -, no matter where the second rank base is

If shooting down the page they get 3 dice at +

Wow.. I went to bed and my post went crazy! I will read it more in depth when i get home from work. Thanks!

rbodleyscott wrote:

philqw78 wrote:

MikeK wrote:
... Shot from the rear it would have to count as prot cav 2 ranks deep per p95. If shot from the front or flank it would depend whether it's on the Knight side or the Cav side since the front rank armour counts, so the 2 rank POA would only apply if that front rank base had another Prot Cav behind.

But prot Cav in a 3 front, 1 rear formation counts 2 ranks deep, even if you are only in arc for a bit one rank deep doesn't it?

Yes, because the rules require them to be entirely 1 rank deep to escape the POA.

Phil, that's rather a red herring since there is no question that the POA applies for shooting a formation of 3 first rank and 1 second rank Prot Cav. You clearly have a base frontage Prot Cav that is not in one rank.

It is different where the there is a mix of protected and armoured or heavily armoured horse in the first rank. The POA is for a nearest rank of "Protected Cavalry unless entirely 1 base deep". If there is Prot Cav only behind the Knights, then the target Prot Cav in the nearest rank for shooting (the front rank) is entirely 1 base deep. The front rank Knight is not Prot Cav.

If the POA read "unless battle group is entirely 1 base deep" then it would mean something different but consistent with your interpretation. It would also be easier to implement. I can see rationales either way. Let me know if I'm missing something.

MikeK wrote: Phil, that's rather a red herring since there is no question that the POA applies for shooting a formation of 3 first rank and 1 second rank Prot Cav. You clearly have a base frontage Prot Cav that is not in one rank.

It is different where the there is a mix of protected and armoured or heavily armoured horse in the first rank. The POA is for a nearest rank of "Protected Cavalry unless entirely 1 base deep". If there is Prot Cav only behind the Knights, then the target Prot Cav in the nearest rank for shooting (the front rank) is entirely 1 base deep. The front rank Knight is not Prot Cav.

If the POA read "unless battle group is entirely 1 base deep" then it would mean something different but consistent with your interpretation. It would also be easier to implement. I can see rationales either way. Let me know if I'm missing something.

So if I had a BG of Unprotected and Protected cav with only one type in the front and only one type in the rear rank no POA's could apply. Thanks for clearing that up.