Slitherine

Hello, i just tought that some of you guys might be interested in my take on Russian strategy. In essence i try to encircle troops,. as many as posible in the first turn. This game is an AAR of my game with joerock22. After turn 4, i am now in Smolensk-Kharkov-Novgorod.

This only relates the first turn , before and the after Barbarossa. I'll be able to add more AAR if there is more interest

First, the order of battle. Notice the placement of my tank and then of my planes. Every one of these units will play a crucial role. Also notice the transport just beside Riga.

NORTHERN FRONT:


SOUTHERN FRONT:


The goal is to try to encircle and/or detroy as many border troops as you can. Also, the main objective is to get rid of the 2 russian tanks close to the border, and get a jump point from which you can take Minsk and Dnepopetrovsk in the 2nd turn.

NORTHERN FRONT AFTER TURN 1



As you can see, the whole front is totally disrupted, and no order troops are left in supply... The tank is also destroyed, Riga and Brest-Litovsk ar also in my hands

SOUTHERN FRONT AFTER TURN 1



Odessa is german, putting the tank out-of-supply. The rest of the order troops are out of supply and Dnepopetrovsk will be german next turn.

I will keep you posted onth restof the campaign...

Oh, please don't! It's not looking good for me!

Just kidding. I actually was curious about how you managed to capture all those cities and surround all those troops on turn 1, so this could be very helpful for me. Maybe you'll start to see a little of yourself in how I play our future games? Anyway, thanks for posting.

My first strike in barbarossa is quite similar to yours. Only difference is that i kill the tank North-west of Odessa while i don't kill the tank south of Odessa.

Why the transport anyway? you can take Riga even without it in first turn.

For anyone interested, here is a brief update on how this game is going. Max captured Moscow but not Gorki or Stalingrad in 1941, and it's now mid-1942. I saved most of the Russia army instead of fighting, and have formed up a double defensive line in Siberia. The Soviets will at least make it until 1943. In the west, the British and Americans have launched a massive invasion of France to take pressure off the Russians. I still rate my chances at victory as slim, but at least now I have some chance to win (unlike our last game where I fought in 1941 and was overwhelmed in 1942). At this point, I'm not sure there even is a way to effectively counter a Barbarossa like Max runs in the vanilla game.

Then again, I thought my Barbarossa strategy was unbeatable until Max showed me otherwise. That game is just beginning the 1944 campaigning season, with two huge armies clashing in front of Perm. In 1942-43, I massacred a large Allied invasion force in France, but Max shifted strategies, knocking Italy out of the war after a long mountain campaign. Now he's landing small groups of units all over the map and I'm not sure where his main strike will hit. Both of us think the game will end in a draw. If I can force Russia to surrender, however, I will pat myself on the back and award myself a minor victory.

Well, for those interested, the game is now in 1943 and the Germans have resumed their offensive, after 1 one-year lull. joe did put up a very effective strategy against my speed barbarossa, refusing battle and lining up the troops in front of Perm. That made me advance all the way to Kazan in 1942 but then realise that i was not going to get thru the 3-thick line of troops. In the west, i finally repulsed a massive allie invasion.

It is now 1943, and i managed to take most of the map, Spain, middle east, Caucasus, Leningrad, Stalingrad... In fact, the Russian are only holding PERM galliantly with an incredible number of troops since i didnt attack them at all in 1942... But i wasnt inactive. I built up a massivce air fleet composed of over 20 bombers with my 200+ revenue (i have industry LVL 5 and invested heavily in that area).

The game is still undecided since i will be able to kill a lot of troops with the many tanks and planes i massed up in the Kotlas/Gorki corridor. But i am unsure of how it will go. joe has managed to mount an incredible 4 line of infantry for me before i get to PERM! And the russian tanks are lurking behind those troops if i get to agressive

In the west, i also built my own human wall, with 1 troops per hex from Bordeaux to Wilhelmshaven. this should enable me to fend off any short term invasion since the allies should not have enough planes to make a difference.

Well see how it goes!

This game ended in fall 1943 with the fall of Perm and Max mercifully allowing me to surrender. Max used his 20+ planes to open up a narrow corridor through my 3-deep line to the Soviet capital, and I couldn't dislodge him with just infantry attacks. He said he didn't even need to attack Perm, just march into it. So Russia surrenderd with the vast majority of its army still intact.

It's too bad we were playing on vanilla, because the BJR mod only allows 2 air attacks per hex. But I forced him into that mass-bombardment strategy, and in his shoes I would have done the same thing. If it's allowed by the game, do it!

joerock22 wrote:This game ended in fall 1943 with the fall of Perm and Max mercifully allowing me to surrender. Max used his 20+ planes to open up a narrow corridor through my 3-deep line to the Soviet capital, and I couldn't dislodge him with just infantry attacks. He said he didn't even need to attack Perm, just march into it. So Russia surrenderd with the vast majority of its army still intact.

It's too bad we were playing on vanilla, because the BJR mod only allows 2 air attacks per hex. But I forced him into that mass-bombardment strategy, and in his shoes I would have done the same thing. If it's allowed by the game, do it!

Boy, am I glad we're playing the mod. I wouldn't stand a chance if it were the vanilla game. Even as it stands now, I still don't stand much of a chance; but at least I have some chance.

i haven't played any human opponents before. been doing ok. not great as axis.

launched barbarossa beginning of july (like i said, not doing great)

but here's the thing. just got a nasty counterattack.

the russian has 12 armored units.

and those are just the ones i can see.

never seen this done before.

i guess he didn't buy any garrisons/ground troops at all.

Happened to me too in my first PBEM. Needless to say that my troops were slaughtered and could make a stand only at the "Ostwall". The game was lost however as I lost also Africa before ...
My opponent said that this is one of a couple of tactics he uses in PBEM games when defending Russia.
I did some maths and yes, it is possible to create such a tank army with the points Russia gets before Barbarossa.

AC

supermax used this same strategy in our latest game, though I think he only had 9-10 tanks. I lost 2 tanks and 10+ infantry, but I destroyed 4 Russian tanks and 3-5 infantry. Winter will arrive with me in possession of Novgorod, Smolensk, Tula, Voronezh, and probably Kharkov.

So it is possible to weather the storm of this Russian tank strategy, though it is difficult. You have to invade early (June or before) and advance cautiously and in force. You will probably have to resist the temptation to counterattack immediately unless you can rail in substantial reinforcements.

Something like this is possible in the BJR mod, only with 16 Russian tanks during Barbarossa! But that was deemed ahistorical, so steps have been taken to eliminate this strategy in version 2.00.

I am in the middle of a game in which my opponent has employed the russian tank strategy, and I must admit that I had never even considered it a possibility. The first winter is almost here, and I am staring at no fewer than 17 russian tanks. I was not at all prepared, and I never even crossed the dnieper. It is going to be a very long winter. Joe, what is in BJR 2.0 that prevents this kind of thing?

ftgcritt2 wrote:Joe, what is in BJR 2.0 that prevents this kind of thing?

Most of Russia's starting tanks have been eliminated and replaced with infantry (worth about the same number of PPs). So now the Russian player has to build tanks if he wants to get them. On the flipside, starting with more infantry means he doesn't have to build so many of those, so he is free to focus his resources on tanks or planes. It is quite literally impossible for the USSR to get 17 tanks before 1942. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to really test how this affects the game balance, but it is on our "to do" list.

The new Declaration of War and winter rules in the latest BJR mod also reduce the effectiveness of the Russian armour strategy as the DOW rules knock Russian effiency down by 20% which limits the ability of the Russian player to defend the Dnepr River line early on, and the new winter rules reduce the effectiveness of Russian winter counterattacks against rested German units (axis allies are still vulnerable of course).