Slitherine

I just kept France alive until August '41 against the AI. What's the longest anyone has lasted?

MarkClark wrote:I just kept France alive until August '41 against the AI. What's the longest anyone has lasted?

September 10, 1941 PBEM w/BJR mod.

MarkClark wrote:I just kept France alive until August '41 against the AI. What's the longest anyone has lasted?

Against the AI: France was still in fair defensive position (though depleted manpower) in December 1940 when I quit in disgust.

Against a human (newbie, though, so not really fair): By November 1940 France's defensive line was still solid, both Luftwaffe fighters and one tac bomber deceased, almost entire Axis navy gone... so we called it a wrap.

To me the moral of the story is that the Allied defense of France is not to be underestimated. Yes, it's supposed to be a foregone conclusion, and it usually is, but the Axis player needs to have a very strong opening gambit if he's going to avoid some nasty consequences. A strong Allied player is in position to pounce on any Axis missteps.

Diplomaticus wrote:

MarkClark wrote:I just kept France alive until August '41 against the AI. What's the longest anyone has lasted?

Against the AI: France was still in fair defensive position (though depleted manpower) in December 1940 when I quit in disgust.

Against a human (newbie, though, so not really fair): By November 1940 France's defensive line was still solid, both Luftwaffe fighters and one tac bomber deceased, almost entire Axis navy gone... so we called it a wrap.

To me the moral of the story is that the Allied defense of France is not to be underestimated. Yes, it's supposed to be a foregone conclusion, and it usually is, but the Axis player needs to have a very strong opening gambit if he's going to avoid some nasty consequences. A strong Allied player is in position to pounce on any Axis missteps.

I think Joe told me, or I've read it here somewhere, that you actually defeated an Axis player in 1940. How did that happen?

Yeah, i defeated an axis player at the end of 1940. The guy launched a somewhat feeble offensive in Belgium, and instead of waiting for it, i counter-attacked... Worked out well actually. I would recommend that agasint a non-weary Axis player that think he is the sole player in the game that can get the initiative...

Against the AI with the BJR-mod I've managed to not lose France at all. Germany fell in 1941 I think. They repeated the same attacks in the west not getting anywhere. I sent all I had of British land units I had to France and could go on the offensive late 1940. I even think the Germans were stupid enough to launch a Barbarossa in 1941 so the Russians joined in on the slaughter. So playing against the AI is no fun at all.

I've held France till July in a game playing with the BJR-mod. That was a result of the Axis player being to adventurous and losing some units (including an armor unit). Usually I manage to hold France till May, but even I have lost France in April (against Jim). There is not much you can do against a determined and experienced Axis player. It's possible to send British units to France, but they could be killed and then Sealion will succeed easily.

Here is a AAR



This game was agaisnt Viracoha, PBEM, vesion 1.06 of the Vanilla game.

@supermax,

The screen cap is just wild! What happen to the German army? Where is the Luftwaffe and Italian air force? How did you manage to destroy three German tanks corps and two motorized corps?

Most of them were encircled in the borders battles in france/germany. I also managed to land in Wilhelshaven and take it. This player was not paying attention to thge strategy i like the most, which is encirclement

This screen cap was taken just before the end of the turn, i wanted to keep a souvenir of this since i knew this was not common! Germany surrendered just after that, and then it was Italy all alone... This is when we stoppped the game, imagine the Russians wehre not even in the war neither the americans yet!

Once troops are encircled, they get essentially armless.

I thinik i have most screen cap of the game, i could post them if you want, it would give you an idea of the how...

You want to try me now?

supermax wrote:Most of them were encircled in the borders battles in france/germany. I also managed to land in Wilhelshaven and take it. This player was not paying attention to thge strategy i like the most, which is encirclement

This screen cap was taken just before the end of the turn, i wanted to keep a souvenir of this since i knew this was not common! Germany surrendered just after that, and then it was Italy all alone... This is when we stoppped the game, imagine the Russians wehre not even in the war neither the americans yet!

Once troops are encircled, they get essentially armless.

I thinik i have most screen cap of the game, i could post them if you want, it would give you an idea of the how...

You want to try me now?

With the BJR mod?

I currently have 2 games running with the vanilla game, and neverr tried the BJR mod. Maybee we can do a game once i upgrade my game after i am done with Joerock?

Against the AI, France can be held I've found down to about "even" on the difficulty settings if the British are prepared to commit fully to that defense.

The Italians present little problem (even Garrison units quite effectively hold them back and can even advance a little against them), allowing all the best units to form a double-defensive line that holds the Germans out.

Against people it's a lot harder since they understand how vital it is that Germany dispatch France quickly AND efficiently. In fact, if France can even hold out for a decent time, it's enough to screw over the German player preventing them from properly building up for Barbarossa.

supermax wrote:I currently have 2 games running with the vanilla game, and neverr tried the BJR mod. Maybee we can do a game once i upgrade my game after i am done with Joerock?

Sounds good. Just let me know when you ready.

supermax wrote:Most of them were encircled in the borders battles in france/germany. I also managed to land in Wilhelshaven and take it. This player was not paying attention to thge strategy i like the most, which is encirclement

This screen cap was taken just before the end of the turn, i wanted to keep a souvenir of this since i knew this was not common! Germany surrendered just after that, and then it was Italy all alone... This is when we stoppped the game, imagine the Russians wehre not even in the war neither the americans yet!

Once troops are encircled, they get essentially armless.

I thinik i have most screen cap of the game, i could post them if you want, it would give you an idea of the how...

You want to try me now?

WOW! I think we have found a CEaW 'Champion' - Perhaps you and Stauffenberg should play in a 'Superbowl' of CEaW - If so please post a play-by-play AAR. That would be fantastic!

Jay

I've given up on the vanilla game a long time ago and only play the BJR-mod. Those are two different games and would require different strategies to succeed.

I just play for fun and mainly to playtest the BJR-mod to improve the mod even further when it comes to balance and historical accuracy. Whether I win or lose is not that important. So I'm not playing games just to get a rating, score, title or whatever.

Right now I'm playing 4 games and I feel it's the max of what I can play at the moment. When these games finish then it's possible to play the BJR-mod against others. It's not important to me who is better than who. One game can never decide that. Take an example from chess. Just because Magnus Carlsen beat Vishy Anand in Linares this year doesn't mean he's better than the World Champion.

I'm pretty sure Supermax, Joerock and others would crush me in the vanilla game because my playing style isn't optimized for that version. I'm playing against Joe in the BJR-mod and it's too hard to tell who is going to win there. Even my games against Jim (Happycat) and Ronnie (Rkr1958) are so even so I don't feel I have the initiative yet. All games are now in 1941. All I know is that neither side has made significant mistakes to give an indication who will become the eventual winner.

My feeling is that the BJR-mod is slightly biased in favour of the Allies. The reason I claim that is that the Germans seem to collapse a bit sooner than they did in the real war. It's even "worse" in the vanilla game. One reason for this is that once you manage to get the German oil level to 0 then you don't have to worry about counter attacks from air and armor units. The subs are halted at sea etc. The oil level continues to drop lower and lower due to forced interceptions. We're trying to change the CeaW class files so the minimum oil level will be -1. This means the German oil production will give them a minor positive oil reserve so they can launch a few crucial attacks or move some subs. This will make the Germans be a threat a bit longer. Now it's finally possible to see a repeat of the Battle of the Bulge. Hopefully the class file will be ready this week. Then we will use the updated class file in the current games and learn if the game balance is shifted slightly in favour of the Germans. Then they should be able to hold a few extra turns.

Stauffenberg wrote:I've given up on the vanilla game a long time ago and only play the BJR-mod. Those are two different games and would require different strategies to succeed.

I just play for fun and mainly to playtest the BJR-mod to improve the mod even further when it comes to balance and historical accuracy. Whether I win or lose is not that important. So I'm not playing games just to get a rating, score, title or whatever.

Right now I'm playing 4 games and I feel it's the max of what I can play at the moment. When these games finish then it's possible to play the BJR-mod against others. It's not important to me who is better than who. One game can never decide that. Take an example from chess. Just because Magnus Carlsen beat Vishy Anand in Linares this year doesn't mean he's better than the World Champion.

I'm pretty sure Supermax, Joerock and others would crush me in the vanilla game because my playing style isn't optimized for that version. I'm playing against Joe in the BJR-mod and it's too hard to tell who is going to win there. Even my games against Jim (Happycat) and Ronnie (Rkr1958) are so even so I don't feel I have the initiative yet. All games are now in 1941. All I know is that neither side has made significant mistakes to give an indication who will become the eventual winner.

My feeling is that the BJR-mod is slightly biased in favour of the Allies. The reason I claim that is that the Germans seem to collapse a bit sooner than they did in the real war. It's even "worse" in the vanilla game. One reason for this is that once you manage to get the German oil level to 0 then you don't have to worry about counter attacks from air and armor units. The subs are halted at sea etc. The oil level continues to drop lower and lower due to forced interceptions. We're trying to change the CeaW class files so the minimum oil level will be -1. This means the German oil production will give them a minor positive oil reserve so they can launch a few crucial attacks or move some subs. This will make the Germans be a threat a bit longer. Now it's finally possible to see a repeat of the Battle of the Bulge. Hopefully the class file will be ready this week. Then we will use the updated class file in the current games and learn if the game balance is shifted slightly in favour of the Germans. Then they should be able to hold a few extra turns.

Having the minimum to -1 would be great both for the mod and the vanilla game. In real war, germans had oil to fight till they had ploesti bombed. In the vanilla game, germany can run out of oil even in '42. In bjr mod a little later, but still way earlier than in real war.

Maybe just making ploesti 8 instead of 4 ?

Stauffenberg wrote:I've given up on the vanilla game a long time ago and only play the BJR-mod. Those are two different games and would require different strategies to succeed.

I just play for fun and mainly to playtest the BJR-mod to improve the mod even further when it comes to balance and historical accuracy. Whether I win or lose is not that important. So I'm not playing games just to get a rating, score, title or whatever.

Right now I'm playing 4 games and I feel it's the max of what I can play at the moment. When these games finish then it's possible to play the BJR-mod against others. It's not important to me who is better than who. One game can never decide that. Take an example from chess. Just because Magnus Carlsen beat Vishy Anand in Linares this year doesn't mean he's better than the World Champion.

I'm pretty sure Supermax, Joerock and others would crush me in the vanilla game because my playing style isn't optimized for that version. I'm playing against Joe in the BJR-mod and it's too hard to tell who is going to win there. Even my games against Jim (Happycat) and Ronnie (Rkr1958) are so even so I don't feel I have the initiative yet. All games are now in 1941. All I know is that neither side has made significant mistakes to give an indication who will become the eventual winner.

My feeling is that the BJR-mod is slightly biased in favour of the Allies. The reason I claim that is that the Germans seem to collapse a bit sooner than they did in the real war. It's even "worse" in the vanilla game. One reason for this is that once you manage to get the German oil level to 0 then you don't have to worry about counter attacks from air and armor units. The subs are halted at sea etc. The oil level continues to drop lower and lower due to forced interceptions. We're trying to change the CeaW class files so the minimum oil level will be -1. This means the German oil production will give them a minor positive oil reserve so they can launch a few crucial attacks or move some subs. This will make the Germans be a threat a bit longer. Now it's finally possible to see a repeat of the Battle of the Bulge. Hopefully the class file will be ready this week. Then we will use the updated class file in the current games and learn if the game balance is shifted slightly in favour of the Germans. Then they should be able to hold a few extra turns.

==
Ok, I understand - It's just that you guys (Ronnie and Jim included) have an excellent grasp of the Game, Vanilla or Mod. I still think it would be agreat AAR.


Jay

Louis held my German Army back till December 1940 when I finally took Paris.

julyderek wrote:Louis held my German Army back till December 1940 when I finally took Paris.

Yes - I too am impressed with Louis

Jay

KingHunter wrote:

julyderek wrote:Louis held my German Army back till December 1940 when I finally took Paris.

Yes - I too am impressed with Louis

Jay

But, I am hoping do the same thing to him in our Reverse game.